Wheldon Road

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gateman
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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by gateman » 23 Nov 2021, 17:15

for me the princess st stand is fine i dont think many want an all seater the main stand is well outdated

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by FIat Capper » 23 Nov 2021, 17:37

Matt wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 15:39 Realistically how much can be improved without flipping the pitch and maybe removing the training pitch? The princess street end is limited in space and a new larger stand would tower over existing housing which could cause planning issues. WR is butted up to the road pretty much already - can't exactly take any more meters off of our pitch.
Room behind the Railway end. Could rip that out, extend the pitch to 100m, plus in goal, and build new terracing/stand/hospitality. Lose space for Sky equipment and coach parking.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by TheSheriff » 23 Nov 2021, 17:58

Blackbulltiger wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 15:26 Said this would happen four years ago was red herring to get the the land and kept getting shot down by the men in the now def going happen brigrade who don't post any more . Both cas and wakey have fallin for the same scam can't see us getting a penny from Axiom another year the present deal runs out any way they can just submit new planning we out stadium probably few new cars for some people as well
.
Except without Brexit happening Axiom would have been open a long time ago now.

Getting WR up to scratch is the next best option now so hopefully they get cracking ASAP.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by The Firm » 23 Nov 2021, 18:40

tigerfeat wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:51
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:47
Called it earlier in the thread. Now the fun starts and we have to fight for the very best deal possible.
How much extra could we get then I didn't think it would be anything like what's been planned for ...
Pretty much guaranteed that it won’t be the full amount but what that amount is depends on the profitability of what is going where the stadium should have been. Remember that stadium site now becomes new land for them to make money out of on top of what was already earmarked for the retail. So there is a tidy amount to be had if we’ve got the cojones to argue hard. And we should because we have a decent, albeit not perfect, position. The S106 remains in place and trying to circumvent it is not worth either the cost or the hassle to Axiom who have already spent plenty on the site getting it to this stage without any income from it. A change of use, basic architect drawings and a re-hash of the same surveys already carried out is much cheaper, quicker and easier. It is in their interest as much as ours. Wakey are getting between £8-9 Million from their developer. Depending what plans are put forward i see no reason why there should be a great deal of difference here. Then £2m from the council and apply for every sports & community development grant going and we could have £12 million to do the old girl up.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Nov 2021, 19:04

Yes I see what your saying maybe we can feel a bit more optimistic about things at last
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by mart0042 » 23 Nov 2021, 19:08

tigerfeat wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 14:23 Where's 8million come from ? 2 million will be what we get if it's voted through as expected
The rumour was 5m from the Axiom deal plus the 2k. I fat fingered 8m rather than 7m.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by mart0042 » 23 Nov 2021, 19:16

The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 18:40
tigerfeat wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:51
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:47
Called it earlier in the thread. Now the fun starts and we have to fight for the very best deal possible.
How much extra could we get then I didn't think it would be anything like what's been planned for ...
Pretty much guaranteed that it won’t be the full amount but what that amount is depends on the profitability of what is going where the stadium should have been. Remember that stadium site now becomes new land for them to make money out of on top of what was already earmarked for the retail. So there is a tidy amount to be had if we’ve got the cojones to argue hard. And we should because we have a decent, albeit not perfect, position. The S106 remains in place and trying to circumvent it is not worth either the cost or the hassle to Axiom who have already spent plenty on the site getting it to this stage without any income from it. A change of use, basic architect drawings and a re-hash of the same surveys already carried out is much cheaper, quicker and easier. It is in their interest as much as ours. Wakey are getting between £8-9 Million from their developer. Depending what plans are put forward i see no reason why there should be a great deal of difference here. Then £2m from the council and apply for every sports & community development grant going and we could have £12 million to do the old girl up.
I really can't see wakey getting 8-9m from the Newmarket job. Especially as the s106 was not attached and so could get out free.

We have got one and for a ground that would cost 15m, if they want us is to give it up, they could give us 14m, they'd be saving money

It's a win win for us.
Last edited by mart0042 on 23 Nov 2021, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by mart0042 » 23 Nov 2021, 19:19

The plans someone saw on the development, on Facebook a bit back.

It said taking the railway end back to give us a full length pitch, a full length main stand, redeveloped WR and Princess Street stands.

The cost won't be cheap. I know it's cheaper to build a new ground from scratch but given its only really 2 stands. Got to be less than 15m

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by casjunction » 23 Nov 2021, 19:44

Just out of curiosity Black Bull.... Tiger you only joined the forum this year so how would anyone know you were saying this flow l mean four years ago.
Back on topic.
It looks as though Cas have accepted the new ground isn't happening.
So cash from WMDC, from Axiom ask those who bought a brick if they want a refund or transfer into the refurbishment pot plus whatever and where additional funds can be sought, lets get cracking.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by The Firm » 23 Nov 2021, 19:49

mart0042 wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 19:16
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 18:40
tigerfeat wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:51
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:47
Called it earlier in the thread. Now the fun starts and we have to fight for the very best deal possible.
How much extra could we get then I didn't think it would be anything like what's been planned for ...
Pretty much guaranteed that it won’t be the full amount but what that amount is depends on the profitability of what is going where the stadium should have been. Remember that stadium site now becomes new land for them to make money out of on top of what was already earmarked for the retail. So there is a tidy amount to be had if we’ve got the cojones to argue hard. And we should because we have a decent, albeit not perfect, position. The S106 remains in place and trying to circumvent it is not worth either the cost or the hassle to Axiom who have already spent plenty on the site getting it to this stage without any income from it. A change of use, basic architect drawings and a re-hash of the same surveys already carried out is much cheaper, quicker and easier. It is in their interest as much as ours. Wakey are getting between £8-9 Million from their developer. Depending what plans are put forward i see no reason why there should be a great deal of difference here. Then £2m from the council and apply for every sports & community development grant going and we could have £12 million to do the old girl up.
I really can't see wakey getting 8-9m from the Newmarket job. Especially as the s106 was not attached and so could get out free.

We have got one and for a ground that would cost 15m, if they want us is to give it up, they could give us 14m, they'd be saving money

It's a win win for us.
Wakey are getting £8-9 Million, the figure is in the planning details.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 23 Nov 2021, 20:06

Posters are saying that Axiom just need to hang on a bit and they will be able to develop the land without providing anything for the club
What is potentially on the table now is exactly what I have been suggesting for a long time on this site.
The issue that stops Axiom completely walking away from some sort of stadium commitment is the fact that the land is Green Belt which means that the legal presumption that planning permission should be granted for development doesn’t apply and the developers have to show very special reasons ( usually by making a significant community investment) in order to get planning permission.
They may have consultants who will try and get out of this requirement, but I think they would struggle and use up a lot of time, money and goodwill even if they succeeded. IMO if Axiom are serious about proceeding they will negotiate a payment towards the Stadium and it will be up to the club and more importantly the Council to ensure that the community isn’t short changed

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by alftupper » 24 Nov 2021, 08:40

TheSheriff wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 17:58
Blackbulltiger wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 15:26 Said this would happen four years ago was red herring to get the the land and kept getting shot down by the men in the now def going happen brigrade who don't post any more . Both cas and wakey have fallin for the same scam can't see us getting a penny from Axiom another year the present deal runs out any way they can just submit new planning we out stadium probably few new cars for some people as well
.
Except without Brexit happening Axiom would have been open a long time ago now.
Our economy is the fastest growing in the G20, but it still doesn’t stop remoaners from writing rubbish like this. Surprised he’s not blaming the ref or the RFL as he usually does!

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by gateman » 24 Nov 2021, 09:11

i will stand corrected but i was led to believe there is a fund that every new building as to pay into, that is supposed to be used to improve local emenities with the amount of housing that as gone up this must amount to a tidy sum, i am sure there are other sources of cash that can be tapped into , to be added to the two million

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by mart0042 » 24 Nov 2021, 11:10

The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 19:49
mart0042 wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 19:16
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 18:40
tigerfeat wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:51
The Firm wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 14:47

Called it earlier in the thread. Now the fun starts and we have to fight for the very best deal possible.
How much extra could we get then I didn't think it would be anything like what's been planned for ...
Pretty much guaranteed that it won’t be the full amount but what that amount is depends on the profitability of what is going where the stadium should have been. Remember that stadium site now becomes new land for them to make money out of on top of what was already earmarked for the retail. So there is a tidy amount to be had if we’ve got the cojones to argue hard. And we should because we have a decent, albeit not perfect, position. The S106 remains in place and trying to circumvent it is not worth either the cost or the hassle to Axiom who have already spent plenty on the site getting it to this stage without any income from it. A change of use, basic architect drawings and a re-hash of the same surveys already carried out is much cheaper, quicker and easier. It is in their interest as much as ours. Wakey are getting between £8-9 Million from their developer. Depending what plans are put forward i see no reason why there should be a great deal of difference here. Then £2m from the council and apply for every sports & community development grant going and we could have £12 million to do the old girl up.
I really can't see wakey getting 8-9m from the Newmarket job. Especially as the s106 was not attached and so could get out free.

We have got one and for a ground that would cost 15m, if they want us is to give it up, they could give us 14m, they'd be saving money

It's a win win for us.
Wakey are getting £8-9 Million, the figure is in the planning details.
Wow, high bench mark. Maybe our dreams can come true.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by Ponte Pigeon » 24 Nov 2021, 11:21

I fear that this as all been left too late and will ultimately cost Cas our Super League status if the league reintroduce licensing.

Even if the club spend 8 million on Wheldon Road it will be difficult to match the facilities/ corporate facilities of other clubs. Which in the long term will require substantial investment to keep up with the Super League clubs. I do feel the location of Wheldon Road will also commercially hold the club back.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by FIat Capper » 24 Nov 2021, 13:12

gateman wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 09:11 i will stand corrected but i was led to believe there is a fund that every new building as to pay into, that is supposed to be used to improve local emenities with the amount of housing that as gone up this must amount to a tidy sum, i am sure there are other sources of cash that can be tapped into , to be added to the two million
Improve local amenities/infrastructure yes. A private sports business is most certainly neither of those two.

Incidentally, this approach would've forced the Axiom development to spend millions on improving the highway layout at Jct 32 so a reduced scheme or removal of retail may allow them to reduce the level of highway improvements, saving them even more money.

All will depend on the revised development though and I still won't fancy having to negotiate the area on a busy Saturday afternoon.

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by Matt » 24 Nov 2021, 13:31

FIat Capper wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 17:37
Matt wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 15:39 Realistically how much can be improved without flipping the pitch and maybe removing the training pitch? The princess street end is limited in space and a new larger stand would tower over existing housing which could cause planning issues. WR is butted up to the road pretty much already - can't exactly take any more meters off of our pitch.
Room behind the Railway end. Could rip that out, extend the pitch to 100m, plus in goal, and build new terracing/stand/hospitality. Lose space for Sky equipment and coach parking.
That still leaves it really tight on both Wheldon Road and Princess Street with little room to modernise the stands unless you shifted the pitch to be further towards the training field and the train track.
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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by FIat Capper » 24 Nov 2021, 14:48

I take the point and agree some room is available but you appear to have left less space for the main stand than any of the others.

I'm sure the ultimate design will depend on finances and don't forget, something as dramatic as the whole pitch moving would require the ground being out of use during the season. This will add to the cost.

We may well be able to redevelop both the Princess St stand and the infamous Wheldon Road End by the provision of new boundary walls/turnstiles, roof and toilets. Without examining every detail myself I can only guess at the possibility of building a stand that is raised off ground level, providing space underneath for other aspects such as food & drink and /or a walkway. Where the space is too narrow, is there room for a press box to neatly close the corner of the Railway End and Princess St?

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by Blackbulltiger » 24 Nov 2021, 14:58

Really do think people are in dream land again if they think we will get 5million to 8million off Axiom

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Re: Wheldon Road

Post by cogito ergo sum » 24 Nov 2021, 15:22

Blackbulltiger wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 14:58 Really do think people are in dream land again if they think we will get 5million to 8million off Axiom
We need to dream because the status quo is dropping us further and further adrift. There has to be an answer somewhere because we are on borrowed time.

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