New stadium

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Re: New stadium

Post by JIN JER » 14 Jan 2022, 12:36

mart0042 wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 11:06
JIN JER wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 12:44
mart0042 wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 11:18
orrsome wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 22:48
lurcher wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 12:23

thanks for that mart, i must have missed it first time around. sounds very positive from all parties.
Steve McBurney on behalf of the owners of the Junction 32 site:
An employment development at the Junction 32 site would take advantage of the existing planning approval and we are looking forward to working closely with Wakefield Council to achieve this.

Doesn't this mean that another planning application will not be needed?
Yes, new planning/change of use. It could go in front of the council at the same time as Cas planning for the redevelopment of WR. Just like wakey did and they only get it by Cas discharging their s106.

So, they want to build warehousing or similar. It would be approved once they give Cas the monetary equivalent of a new ground. No money, no planning and Cas still have their s106 stopping development on the site.

There are options:

1) the land owners decide not to build, a big waste of the millions already spent for nothing. (Wouldn't make sense due to wakey getting 8.3m for a smaller plot at a site with less money gaining potential.)

2) the land owners could try and opt for a "we'll do all the Cas redevelopment" so no money changes hands. (A new s106 would be agreed, meaning we are sorted)

3) we gain the money needed and use our sponsors to do the work. We should have all the bases covered by now. We have piling company sponsors now, along with GMI the builders, glass manufacturers, demolition experts, planners, architects, solicitors. That should cut costs.

Of colurse things can go wrong but the council have really backed wakey when they weren't legally obliged. Legally they have to back the s1l06 we have.

I'm the eternal optimist and and I hope things move quickly and positively. I'm quite happy that the site at Glassoughton is either built on and we gain a new stadium or nothing gets built there. When they have worked so hard to get it to brown field status, why let it go back to green belt?
I’m not the font of all knowledge regarding our ground but to suggest the council “have really backed Wakefield” is way off mark. They have certainly got stuck in in the last couple of years (since Box left?) and MC has been on the case. As for not being legally obliged I’d guess that the club have been pressing hard for support after they clumsily/stupidly let Yorkcourt by pass the original 106 agreement, with the help of Rodney Walker. I wonder why Rodders was so easy to manipulate?😟
My reference to backing refers to this last deal. Prior to that they've been shocking but have come good.

Ultimately they didn't need to force the new s106 legally but have. That's all I'm saying.

I'm sure Rodney made some coin out of it
Ok, fair enough

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Re: New stadium

Post by gateman » 17 Jan 2022, 17:59

just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??

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Re: New stadium

Post by old cas lass » 17 Jan 2022, 18:03

gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
Well it won’t be closing for year then.

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Re: New stadium

Post by yorky » 17 Jan 2022, 18:12

in Lee Radfords first press conference since taking over at Cas he said he had been over to Yorks new ground last week & admired the facilities & he twice mentioned that over the next 24 months there would be ground improvements taking place?

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Re: New stadium

Post by Casmania » 17 Jan 2022, 18:20

gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
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Re: New stadium

Post by old cas lass » 17 Jan 2022, 18:40

old cas lass wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:03
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
Well it won’t be closing for years then.

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 17 Jan 2022, 19:40

Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 17 Jan 2022, 19:42

yorky wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:12 in Lee Radfords first press conference since taking over at Cas he said he had been over to Yorks new ground last week & admired the facilities & he twice mentioned that over the next 24 months there would be ground improvements taking place?
Richard Wright gave us vague timescales for years & they meant nothing. We need concrete being poured not media friendly sound bites.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Casmania » 17 Jan 2022, 21:21

BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 18 Jan 2022, 09:09

yorky wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:12 in Lee Radfords first press conference since taking over at Cas he said he had been over to Yorks new ground last week & admired the facilities & he twice mentioned that over the next 24 months there would be ground improvements taking place?
I find Radford a breath of fresh air listening to him speak about things
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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 18 Jan 2022, 11:20

Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

The council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Year of the Tiger » 18 Jan 2022, 12:02

mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 11:20
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

The council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.
I think you will find the Fultons business was built up from scratch by Jack and Bridie Fulton. The business was sold off and Ian and Jan Fulton are living off the proceeds. They had no input into the business.
In addition, it's nothing to do with us. It's between the developers and council. The council will look at what such a development will bring to the area, they can only go so far as not to jeopardise any deal.

Planning consent changes mean they are easier to obtain now, especially for the larger scale developments.
Developers are now in a position to challenge conditions imposed by the local council.
The council want a development to go ahead. They will do what's needed to get that.

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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 18 Jan 2022, 14:15

Year of the Tiger wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 12:02
mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 11:20
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20

No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

The council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.
I think you will find the Fultons business was built up from scratch by Jack and Bridie Fulton. The business was sold off and Ian and Jan Fulton are living off the proceeds. They had no input into the business.
In addition, it's nothing to do with us. It's between the developers and council. The council will look at what such a development will bring to the area, they can only go so far as not to jeopardise any deal.

Planning consent changes mean they are easier to obtain now, especially for the larger scale developments.
Developers are now in a position to challenge conditions imposed by the local council.
The council want a development to go ahead. They will do what's needed to get that.
I don't know who does what or where with the Fultons but they aren't living in a 2 bed terrace in Harehills. They say Jack was an excellent businessman, I don't know but I couldn't give you the name or details of Richard Branson or Elon musk's parents or their children, but it doesn't mean they have no business acumen. Also Richard Branson and Elon musk don't make all the decisions for their businesses. It's takes a team.

Planning consent may be easier to get but green belt is green belt and a s1l06 is a legal agreement not "if we can be bothered clause".

The council will want us to have a new stadium at no cost to them and still get the site planning to bring in jobs and revenue in taxes. Why would they want anything else?

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Re: New stadium

Post by FIat Capper » 18 Jan 2022, 16:52

I'm not sure whether the national rules for planning have already changed but the Tories are certainly keen to make it easier to develop green belt land. If they haven't changed already then something is in the offing with consultations taken place and a possible green paper prepared.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Blackbulltiger » 18 Jan 2022, 18:09

Can't believe people are still mumbling on about a new stadium it's has dead as a Dow Dow bird .Not happening never was a scam from start to get the land we had are pants down again time to crack on we up grade off Wheldon Road.

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 18 Jan 2022, 18:57

mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 11:20
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20
gateman wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 17:59 just been reading the Wakefield Express on line it states M+S in Cas to close and move to the site were our new stadium was going to be built is this true ??
No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

FThe council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.
Sorry to inform you but that’s not how it works. If we push for what we were promised, we’ll end up not moving forward as the 106 is far too economically unviable. The last thing we want is to price ourselves out of the market.
Selling the land off, or parcelling it up & selling it piecemeal, would be the worst possible outcome & one that may very well happen if we ask for the moon.
We need to be realistic & proactive. We’re having to walk a tightrope in terms of what we want & have no time for protracted negotiations or failure- especially once building starts on the BV development. Anyone who doesn’t see that as a direct threat to us isn’t seeing the big picture!

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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 18 Jan 2022, 19:13

BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 18:57
mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 11:20
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 18:20

No, as part of the s106 agreement and to protect the 5 towns area a moritorium was imposed on approx 140 businessess prohibiting movement to the new development for upto 10 years.
It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

FThe council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.
Sorry to inform you but that’s not how it works. If we push for what we were promised, we’ll end up not moving forward as the 106 is far too economically unviable. The last thing we want is to price ourselves out of the market.
Selling the land off, or parcelling it up & selling it piecemeal, would be the worst possible outcome & one that may very well happen if we ask for the moon.
We need to be realistic & proactive. We’re having to walk a tightrope in terms of what we want & have no time for protracted negotiations or failure- especially once building starts on the BV development. Anyone who doesn’t see that as a direct threat to us isn’t seeing the big picture!
Just one last thing then I'll go...

Why would the council allow planning on the land being sold off in lump or piecemeal? They have allowed the planning at wakey land at Newmarket only if the money is given to rebuild belle Vue. Why would we be different?

Why would we be pricing us out of a move? Wakey haven't used the veg man to do their negotiating and neither have the council. I think you'll find we are in a stronger position.

But there's always doom and gloom. It's makes some people happy and this topic certainly brings out the detractors. Let's hope that's good news in the future.

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 18 Jan 2022, 19:32

mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 19:13
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 18:57
mart0042 wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 11:20
Casmania wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 21:21
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 19:40

It’s highly likely that the entire concept of the development will entirely change. Warehousing & distribution or housing would be my guesses. Both would generate enough capital to offset the investment made to us through the 106, but both could take years to come back to the planning committee.

Absolutely! However, I would imagine any future 106 agreement will be diluted somewhat.
One of the main reasons the proposed development has floundered is due to very onerous conditions of the current 106 agreement.
WMDC are desperate for some sort of development to go ahead. They will be mindful of that fact in ensuring it does go ahead.
Fully agree that they will want to dilute the s106 but for us to lessen its worth it takes agreement.

People seem to think we'll roll over but we are owned by the Fultons who have some coin and business acumen. It's pretty simple " you owe one 10k new stadium, give us a deal that works for us and we'll negotiate".

FThe council have shown they won't give planning without a suitable outcome because it's happened at wakey. Also they don't want to build us a stadium for nothing.
Sorry to inform you but that’s not how it works. If we push for what we were promised, we’ll end up not moving forward as the 106 is far too economically unviable. The last thing we want is to price ourselves out of the market.
Selling the land off, or parcelling it up & selling it piecemeal, would be the worst possible outcome & one that may very well happen if we ask for the moon.
We need to be realistic & proactive. We’re having to walk a tightrope in terms of what we want & have no time for protracted negotiations or failure- especially once building starts on the BV development. Anyone who doesn’t see that as a direct threat to us isn’t seeing the big picture!
Just one last thing then I'll go...

Why would the council allow planning on the land being sold off in lump or piecemeal? They have allowed the planning at wakey land at Newmarket only if the money is given to rebuild belle Vue. Why would we be different?

Why would we be pricing us out of a move? Wakey haven't used the veg man to do their negotiating and neither have the council. I think you'll find we are in a stronger position.

But there's always doom and gloom. It's makes some people happy and this topic certainly brings out the detractors. Let's hope that's good news in the future.
Why would they sell it piecemeal? Because they can. If negotiations become too expensive, that’s their way of recouping the money invested. The council can’t stop them from doing that- just like they couldn’t stop you from selling your house. Having worked in property for the best part of 20 years, I’ve seen this tactic more than a few times.

I can’t directly comment on the deal Wakefield struck, I’m not a fan of theirs so only have a passing working knowledge. I do think we should use their outcome as a yard stick, as the developers & council surely will. They started with a deal covering the ground & ended up with a stand! Construction costs are a lot higher than they were when our 106 was signed & the economies of scale will inevitably be used to justify a more realistic outcome for all parties.

As Casmania stated yesterday, the new 106 will be very different to what we originally signed. I’m he original 106 wasn’t viable for axiom in the current financial climate. They don’t have to build & waiting for the market to improve will always be the preference for developers at the moment. We need to lower our expectations in order to get them to the table. Waving our existing agreement won’t matter either. Push too hard & they’ll drag their feet.

This isn’t moaning or finding fault, this is where we’re at.

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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 18 Jan 2022, 20:23

They have spent millions and millions all ready to get to this point are you saying they will be happy to wait another five years or so playing a let's see who blinks first kind of game
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Re: New stadium

Post by scottiger » 18 Jan 2022, 20:43

tigerfeat wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 20:23 They have spent millions and millions all ready to get to this point are you saying they will be happy to wait another five years or so playing a let's see who blinks first kind of game
Very possible . Land gets sat on all the time
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