New stadium

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BloodMoonRising22UK
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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 30 Dec 2021, 15:46

Of course they could. However, the council may see other investments as being of more value to the community so developers will go with what has the biggest sway with the council. The more you play into the councils hands in terms of meeting their wishes, the more likely you are to get special consideration granted.

Finding another development, which requires such as substantial community investment, doesn’t come along very often. Long term, great idea to keep our ear to the ground in case something, who may be favourable to partnering, come along. Short term, the time for waiting has gone from our point of view. The cruel part is waiting is all we can do now. We can’t move on plans until Axiom agree a sum for rewriting the 106. Axiom won’t agree to any sum until they have plans for a new development drawn up, costed & feel confident having investment lined up. That could be at least a year. No point us paying for architectural drawings created until we know how much money (above the £2m the council have agreed to) we have to play with.

The charges the Fulton family have against the ownership of the ground would also make remortgaging almost impossible unless the Fulton’s are willing to shoulder the debt. This is a huge change in plan from the WR ground sale being used to repay debts.

There are a million parts in play but waiting for another development needing such a substantial 106 isn’t a good plan in the short term.

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Re: New stadium

Post by pat » 30 Dec 2021, 15:49

Wakefeild still have to have it passed by the government so are not home and dry yet.

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Re: New stadium

Post by gateman » 30 Dec 2021, 16:51

i hope they get the go ahead followed at a latter date by us

BloodMoonRising22UK
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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 30 Dec 2021, 17:38

gateman wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 16:51 i hope they get the go ahead followed at a latter date by us
Do you not think any advancement made by them will be detrimental to us?
The worst case scenario for us would be the council becoming any more involved with BV than they already are. If they make it a community stadium & allow the council to invest, will there be any money , or more importantly, political will to go any further than lip service to our private development. Investing in a public development (like a community stadium) will be easier for tax payers to swallow than the council being directly involved in a private development. With the Fulton’s not being paid off with the move, will they want to turn the site into a community stadium with limited private ownership?

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Re: New stadium

Post by Casmania » 30 Dec 2021, 21:48

BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 17:38
gateman wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 16:51 i hope they get the go ahead followed at a latter date by us
Do you not think any advancement made by them will be detrimental to us?
The worst case scenario for us would be the council becoming any more involved with BV than they already are. If they make it a community stadium & allow the council to invest, will there be any money , or more importantly, political will to go any further than lip service to our private development. Investing in a public development (like a community stadium) will be easier for tax payers to swallow than the council being directly involved in a private development. With the Fulton’s not being paid off with the move, will they want to turn the site into a community stadium with limited private ownership?
Some very good points raised here.
I do know some questions have been raised; questioning why a publicly funded body - funded by the local tax payer - should bail out as to what is now a privatley owned company.
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BloodMoonRising22UK
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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 30 Dec 2021, 22:33

Casmania wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 21:48
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 17:38
gateman wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 16:51 i hope they get the go ahead followed at a latter date by us
Do you not think any advancement made by them will be detrimental to us?
The worst case scenario for us would be the council becoming any more involved with BV than they already are. If they make it a community stadium & allow the council to invest, will there be any money , or more importantly, political will to go any further than lip service to our private development. Investing in a public development (like a community stadium) will be easier for tax payers to swallow than the council being directly involved in a private development. With the Fulton’s not being paid off with the move, will they want to turn the site into a community stadium with limited private ownership?
Some very good points raised here.
I do know some questions have been raised; questioning why a publicly funded body - funded by the local tax payer - should bail out as to what is now a privatley owned company.
Whilst I don’t know the fine details of their redevelopment, I struggle to see how this is the same as Newmarket, which would have been publicly owned through a not for profit holding company & they would have had to pay rent.
This new development can’t be a community stadium as it’s on land owned by the company. This was my central point for objecting!

If the council were to work with them to upgrade other areas of their stadium in order to house council facilities, which is what I’m lead to believe will happen next, we could be left behind very quickly.

Whilst we might not want to acknowledge it, this development will have serious consequences for our club.

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Re: New stadium

Post by lurcher » 31 Dec 2021, 01:21

Casmania wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 21:48
BloodMoonRising22UK wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 17:38
gateman wrote: 30 Dec 2021, 16:51 i hope they get the go ahead followed at a latter date by us
Do you not think any advancement made by them will be detrimental to us?
The worst case scenario for us would be the council becoming any more involved with BV than they already are. If they make it a community stadium & allow the council to invest, will there be any money , or more importantly, political will to go any further than lip service to our private development. Investing in a public development (like a community stadium) will be easier for tax payers to swallow than the council being directly involved in a private development. With the Fulton’s not being paid off with the move, will they want to turn the site into a community stadium with limited private ownership?
Some very good points raised here.
I do know some questions have been raised; questioning why a publicly funded body - funded by the local tax payer - should bail out as to what is now a privatley owned company.
just my own take on this. the original wakey scheme was for yorkcourt to fund a community stadium which would be owned by a trust with wakey (paying rent) being the anchor tenants. under michael carters ownership this has now changed to WMDC loaning wakey (owner michael carter) £3.2 million to buy back the ground with an agreement in place that they would only pay interest on the loan until they got payment from yorkcourt at which point they would pay off the £3.2 million. since then (along with us and fev) they have been given a further £2 million for improvements. i just don't understand why WMDC did'nt use the £2 million to claw back some of the £3.2 million that wakey owe already as they have a history of none payment of debts.
just to sum up, originally wakey were getting a new stadium owned by a community trust but now owner michael carter is getting a state of the art stadium which makes him a very wealthy man. some cynical people would say he's been in league with yorkcourt all along and he's played a blinder. not me though. ;)
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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 31 Dec 2021, 07:20

I don't get some of the doom and gloom yes a shiny new ground like we thought we were going to get for a while a few years ago would have been perfect with the extra income streams it would have brought but that's not happening and we have to get on with it
The £2 million pound from WDC will be used to improve the ground new toilet facility's a must and then we've got to work hard to get the extra money as Wakifield have
The idea that the club is run by idiots who don't know what there doing and how to go about this is ridiculous... against all predictions the club made a profit through a hellish period, I don't always agree with what goes on down there but you can't say the club isn't run by people who know what there doing
When Powelly decided to leave a lot of people including myself thought we would look to the cheap option of a new coach we didn't do that and I know Radford wanted assurances about the future before he took the job wether he could bring the players he wanted in and spend the full cap and he's been allowed to do that
This is Cas there's always concerns but I think there's plenty of reasons to be cheerful heading into a new year
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Re: New stadium

Post by Blackbulltiger » 31 Dec 2021, 09:54

tigerfeat wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 07:20 I don't get some of the doom and gloom yes a shiny new ground like we thought we were going to get for a while a few years ago would have been perfect with the extra income streams it would have brought but that's not happening and we have to get on with it
The £2 million pound from WDC will be used to improve the ground new toilet facility's a must and then we've got to work hard to get the extra money as Wakifield have
The idea that the club is run by idiots who don't know what there doing and how to go about this is ridiculous... against all predictions the club made a profit through a hellish period, I don't always agree with what goes on down there but you can't say the club isn't run by people who know what there doing
When Powelly decided to leave a lot of people including myself thought we would look to the cheap option of a new coach we didn't do that and I know Radford wanted assurances about the future before he took the job wether he could bring the players he wanted in and spend the full cap and he's been allowed to do that
This is Cas there's always concerns but I think there's plenty of reasons to be cheerful heading into a new year
They know what there doing this that axiom was that convincing it took alot off people in to the scam a few on here too who don't post any more.Nobody nows what's going happen on field this year could be brilliant season or a total disaster were into the unknown .

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Re: New stadium

Post by Fumper27 » 31 Dec 2021, 09:56

Isn’t that the same for every team heading into every season? Or are we behind the times again by not employing a fortune teller?

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Re: New stadium

Post by gateman » 31 Dec 2021, 10:01

tigerfeat wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 07:20 I don't get some of the doom and gloom yes a shiny new ground like we thought we were going to get for a while a few years ago would have been perfect with the extra income streams it would have brought but that's not happening and we have to get on with it
The £2 million pound from WDC will be used to improve the ground new toilet facility's a must and then we've got to work hard to get the extra money as Wakifield have
The idea that the club is run by idiots who don't know what there doing and how to go about this is ridiculous... against all predictions the club made a profit through a hellish period, I don't always agree with what goes on down there but you can't say the club isn't run by people who know what there doing
When Powelly decided to leave a lot of people including myself thought we would look to the cheap option of a new coach we didn't do that and I know Radford wanted assurances about the future before he took the job wether he could bring the players he wanted in and spend the full cap and he's been allowed to do that
This is Cas there's always concerns but I think there's plenty of reasons to be cheerful heading into a new year
Top post mate there are too many looking for the negatives

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 31 Dec 2021, 10:46

gateman wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 10:01
tigerfeat wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 07:20 I don't get some of the doom and gloom yes a shiny new ground like we thought we were going to get for a while a few years ago would have been perfect with the extra income streams it would have brought but that's not happening and we have to get on with it
The £2 million pound from WDC will be used to improve the ground new toilet facility's a must and then we've got to work hard to get the extra money as Wakifield have
The idea that the club is run by idiots who don't know what there doing and how to go about this is ridiculous... against all predictions the club made a profit through a hellish period, I don't always agree with what goes on down there but you can't say the club isn't run by people who know what there doing
When Powelly decided to leave a lot of people including myself thought we would look to the cheap option of a new coach we didn't do that and I know Radford wanted assurances about the future before he took the job wether he could bring the players he wanted in and spend the full cap and he's been allowed to do that
This is Cas there's always concerns but I think there's plenty of reasons to be cheerful heading into a new year
Top post mate there are too many looking for the negatives
The good aspects about the club will very quickly fade away if we don’t manage to secure a license when it comes to franchising or tighter regulations on grounds. Even if franchising doesn’t come back, which I firmly believe it will, a ten team competition is the goal of the bigger clubs & with the advent of two French clubs, smaller community clubs will be in the firing line.
Hull KR have the sort of renovation WT want already completed. Hudds have the cash to buy their way out of the main issue they face (footfall) by reducing the cost of entry/giving tickets away. With the significant growth in their youth structure, they can show real growth in significant areas of previous weakness.
That only leaves us, Wakefield & Salford. Sound familiar? Sure we’ve been here before.
Salford are imploding & with leaving their new stadium, they’re about to lose the only shining jewel in their crown.

Getting the issue sorted with the stadium is far more pressing than our historical final appearances or the fact we’re currently solvent. If we don’t resolve this issue before Wakefield, we’re in a significantly weaker position than they are.

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Re: New stadium

Post by yorkie1bn » 31 Dec 2021, 12:13

why are Cas fans so obsessed with franchising its not going to happen been there before doesn't work i in sport in this country. Proved that last time just bankrupt's clubs and owners.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 31 Dec 2021, 12:24

yorkie1bn wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 12:13 why are Cas fans so obsessed with franchising its not going to happen been there before doesn't work i in sport in this country. Proved that last time just bankrupt's clubs and owners.
Absolutely. I also think doing Wheldon Road up is now the right answer, but not because I think there was anything wrong with the Axiom solution at the time but I know how difficult it is to get all the ducks in a row for this unless the economic conditions are right and stable it takes years or never happens at all.
It also puts us in a stronger position if licensing comes back, unlikely as I think that is.

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Re: New stadium

Post by gateman » 31 Dec 2021, 12:32

our ground is old and run down, but our fans endure this to give it as voted the best atmosphere of any other ground in the UK RL, our away crowds are up amongst the top , our home crowds beat a number, season ticket sales have increased this time , we have not got a money tree but the two million we have on the table plus anything from other sources IE sport England Axiom and other streams we could make our ground fit for purpose

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 31 Dec 2021, 14:01

gateman wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 12:32 our ground is old and run down, but our fans endure this to give it as voted the best atmosphere of any other ground in the UK RL, our away crowds are up amongst the top , our home crowds beat a number, season ticket sales have increased this time , we have not got a money tree but the two million we have on the table plus anything from other sources IE sport England Axiom and other streams we could make our ground fit for purpose
How far do you think £2M will go?
About half as far as it did pre-brexit. That’s not a politically motivated comment, it’s a hard fact anyone in business lives with day in day out.
To upgrade WR to the standard of say Craven Park would be upwards of £15m & that’s still essentially a 3 sided ground.

We need the council to be pushing axiom to come back to the table ASAP with an offer that would enable us to have EVERYTHING they promised at J32. My fear is that they play the long game, keep us waiting & we end up settling for something much smaller two/three years from now. If Axiom drag their heels, we need the council to underwrite the total cost of the build. When Axiom eventually deliver, the council get paid back. As WMDC have clearly put WT ahead on this issue, it’s the least they can do to insure parity.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Exiled » 31 Dec 2021, 14:58

I am gutted that the new ground will not get built, or at least thats the way its looking. The club will miss out on so much more in new revenue streams and whilst we may not have any other option but to do up WR, its certainly not going to move the club forward in the long term.

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Re: New stadium

Post by BloodMoonRising22UK » 31 Dec 2021, 15:39

Exiled wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 14:58 I am gutted that the new ground will not get built, or at least thats the way its looking. The club will miss out on so much more in new revenue streams and whilst we may not have any other option but to do up WR, its certainly not going to move the club forward in the long term.
I disagree. I’ve mentioned how it could easily be done if we were smart with the council ie- get the council to build facilities into a new stand/stands. This would be a similar model to how HKR had their north stand financed.
Another, more risky, approach would be to play hard ball with Axiom. Demand that as they are the ones holding up our end, they offer some recompense whilst the firm up their future plans. This could be as small as Axiom using their connections within the construction industry to demolish/clear the Wheldon Road end. We then use the £2m to buy the remaining stand from Millmoor in Rotherham & transport it to WR. Construction can be done in house as Fev have shown. Having this build going would keep us at pace with WT & keep us ticking over until Axiom come back to the table.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 31 Dec 2021, 16:37

The Council isn’t in a position to force Axiom to do anything unless they break a provision of a planning permission. As I understand it the club have already said that they are now focusing on Wheldon Road. Our best hope is ( and in my view always was) getting other money to spend on the existing ground and that should include getting a community contribution from Axiom if and when they commence development.

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Re: New stadium

Post by The Firm » 31 Dec 2021, 16:54

yorkie1bn wrote: 31 Dec 2021, 12:13 why are Cas fans so obsessed with franchising its not going to happen been there before doesn't work i in sport in this country. Proved that last time just bankrupt's clubs and owners.
Why are they obsessed? Maybe because however much you want to bury your head in the sand licensing IS on its way back with a preliminary start date of the 2024 season. This is even mentioned in Wakeys planning application, the club know this and need to act. We already (as do Wakey) have to get dispensation to remain at WR every season and the RFL have made it clear that this us coming to an end VERY soon. We need to act immediately otherwise it will be second tier rugby for ever more or playing away from the town and we can’t say we weren’t warned. Improvements must be made, and i’m not talking a new toilet block and a lick of paint. We are talking a major renovation here and that isn’t going to come cheap.

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