New stadium

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SuffolkTiger
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Re: New stadium

Post by SuffolkTiger » 18 Nov 2021, 14:22

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 12:38
Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:11
Tamworth Tiger wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 10:45 New stadia have done nothing for the likes of Leigh, Widnes and Salford. The time is not right now in terms of the economy. Our priority IMO should be essential Health and Safety plus toilets and changing rooms (unless Radford has already sorted those out).
The emphasis from the club with respect to the planned new stadium was about how limited WR is as a modern day stadia. With limited income streams.
The supporting planning documentation was titled 'Thrive not survive' which sums everything up.
Warringtons new stadium has been the making of them financially.
St. Helens released a statement stating their new stadium is having a significant input into increased revenue.
Headingley has been revamped, and has fabulous facilities. Which are being used extensively 365 days a year. Thus, increasing revenue - especially non rugby related income - substantially.

Steve Gill publicly stated in 2015, we would be in the new stadium for the start of 2017.
Nearly 5 years down the line..... nothing!
It really is time for an update.... or maybe a bit of honesty as to exactly where we are.
I don’t disagree about the three you mention, but they are the exception and in the case of Headingley I hope Leeds income streams are totally separate to those of Yorkshire cricket.
I also want a new stadium but the economy is in the wrong place currently for that to happen. In my opinion Cas need to concentrate on on the field product to survive in Superleague in the short term. There are a lot of clubs in greater danger because of stadia which generate expenditure but little or no income, as clubs like Widnes and Salford know and, I suspect Hull, Huddersfield and Wigan too.
Spot on TT.

Until the UK moves further out of the Covid impact and things are more stable in relation the economy, the one thing the club can influence over the next 3 seasons is having a strong, motivated, well conditioned squad and winning rugby matches. Staying in the top 5/6/8 (depending on which one is in fashion in any given season)makes everything behind the scenes more viable.

2017 emphasised that a winning team draws bigger crowds which, in turn, drives multiple income streams.

Overall, things feel positive at the moment but that will soon fade unless we stay in the right half of the table.

Can't wait for the season to start - fixtures out next week...!

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Re: New stadium

Post by The Firm » 18 Nov 2021, 17:25

Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
The council are giving a healthy 7 figure cash GRANT to Wakey for use towards the Belle Vue redevelopment, as per the original Newmarket deal. No doubt council tax will be rising next year for all WMDC residents to help pay for it. Thing is the original deal was for a Community Stadium run by a trust for the people of the whole if Wakefield, this time all proceeds of that stadium goes into Wakefield Trinity’s coffers. Nice deal if you can get it, so i expect when Axiom ‘do a Newmarket’ and change the plans for our stadium plot i fully expect the same treatment. Featherstone should also get the grant. Our directors should be all over this like a rash NOW, before the Wakey deal is signed and sealed next year threatening to kick up a stink without watertight agreements in place. Sadly they seem to be asleep at the wheel.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Piquad1 » 18 Nov 2021, 17:38

They are asleep at the wheel and there's a junction approaching. :arrow:

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Re: New stadium

Post by lurcher » 18 Nov 2021, 21:40

FIat Capper wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 12:42
gateman wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:20 toilets at Weldon road have been brought up two many times to mention only to fall on deaf ears, Radford must have been shocked with the state of the changing rooms to get the paint brush out, I went to Feath a couple of years ago before Normanton were due to play a couple of days later there were three old guys sat having a cup of tea on talking to them they said they came down most days to do bits of jobs that wanted doing,
Someone I know may well have been one of those gentlemen. He spends a lot of time at the ground doing exactly what you say and in return, he gets tickets to games.

The latter would probably stop our penny pinching board from ever considering allowing 'volunteers' to assist down t'lane but it is a very simple idea that sees both sides gain benefits.
i think health and safety and maybe insurance could be some thing to do with not allowing volunteers mate.
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Re: New stadium

Post by lurcher » 18 Nov 2021, 21:44

Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:11
Tamworth Tiger wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 10:45 New stadia have done nothing for the likes of Leigh, Widnes and Salford. The time is not right now in terms of the economy. Our priority IMO should be essential Health and Safety plus toilets and changing rooms (unless Radford has already sorted those out).
The emphasis from the club with respect to the planned new stadium was about how limited WR is as a modern day stadia. With limited income streams.
The supporting planning documentation was titled 'Thrive not survive' which sums everything up.
Warringtons new stadium has been the making of them financially.
St. Helens released a statement stating their new stadium is having a significant input into increased revenue.
Headingley has been revamped, and has fabulous facilities. Which are being used extensively 365 days a year. Thus, increasing revenue - especially non rugby related income - substantially.

Steve Gill publicly stated in 2015, we would be in the new stadium for the start of 2017.
Nearly 5 years down the line..... nothing!
It really is time for an update.... or maybe a bit of honesty as to exactly where we are.
and massively increasing their debts with the millions they've borrowed. headingly will need another revamp by the time the loans are paid off.
jo brand is eddie warings love child

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Re: New stadium

Post by pat » 18 Nov 2021, 23:18

Salford look like there moving to a ground that holds less then 5.thousand and needs work doing to get it to super league requirements

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Re: New stadium

Post by lurcher » 18 Nov 2021, 23:52

pat wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 23:18 Salford look like there moving to a ground that holds less then 5.thousand and needs work doing to get it to super league requirements
correct mate, i remember when they played at "the willows", a great old stadium (similar to the jungle regarding atmosphere). they left for the promised land of the a j bell and have suffered ever since.
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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Nov 2021, 09:40

I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
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Re: New stadium

Post by JIN JER » 19 Nov 2021, 09:47

tigerfeat wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:40 I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
Good old days, I remember going to Naughton park in the mid 80’s on a Wednesday evening, the fog rolled in around the half time and just hung around, the match was suspended for an hour then abandoned, we got home around 1am ready for a 6am start…..

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Re: New stadium

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 19 Nov 2021, 10:27

tigerfeat wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:40 I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
I remember going to the first match at Salford’s new stadium and the car park was pretty covered in heavy snow. It was a nightmare and bloody freezing in the stadium

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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 19 Nov 2021, 10:55

Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
But they are at a preferential rate and if they go pop, the bill is picked up by the public. That's for the upgrade and the mortgage.

The mortgage has been found to be twice as high as the lands value, meaning the sale of the asset would leave the public half the cost and them missing out on key services to pay the debt. They say 100% mortgages are dead but this is a 200% one.

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Re: New stadium

Post by Matt » 19 Nov 2021, 10:55

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 10:27
tigerfeat wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:40 I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
I remember going to the first match at Salford’s new stadium and the car park was pretty covered in heavy snow. It was a nightmare and bloody freezing in the stadium
That was an awful match, getting across the pennines thick of snow was a battle and if it wasn't on Sky it wouldn't have gone ahead. Parked at the stadium that day too and must have spent a few hours trying to get back out of it again. In terms of new stadiums I think Salford's is a blueprint of how not to do something, yes it was nice and new but the stands were basic, seemingly removed all atmosphere and the location is god awful even if it is close to the motorway.
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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Nov 2021, 11:01

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 10:27
tigerfeat wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:40 I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
I remember going to the first match at Salford’s new stadium and the car park was pretty covered in heavy snow. It was a nightmare and bloody freezing in the stadium
Yeah I remember that day well we got lost trying to find the new ground ...goodness me it was cold that day
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: New stadium

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Nov 2021, 11:08

JIN JER wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:47
tigerfeat wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 09:40 I remember winter rugby walking across the car park at the willows knee deep in mud nearly ...them were the days fog frost snow
Good old days, I remember going to Naughton park in the mid 80’s on a Wednesday evening, the fog rolled in around the half time and just hung around, the match was suspended for an hour then abandoned, we got home around 1am ready for a 6am start…..
That's a good one mate ...I remember a match against HKR I think it was the fog lifted a bit before kick off ref said game goes ahead after about 15 minutes the fog was worse than ever you could see about a quarter of the field I can still remember players coming out of the murk into view then going back out of sight again you hadn't a clue what was happening then
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 19 Nov 2021, 11:12

The Firm wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 17:25
Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
The council are giving a healthy 7 figure cash GRANT to Wakey for use towards the Belle Vue redevelopment, as per the original Newmarket deal. No doubt council tax will be rising next year for all WMDC residents to help pay for it. Thing is the original deal was for a Community Stadium run by a trust for the people of the whole if Wakefield, this time all proceeds of that stadium goes into Wakefield Trinity’s coffers. Nice deal if you can get it, so i expect when Axiom ‘do a Newmarket’ and change the plans for our stadium plot i fully expect the same treatment. Featherstone should also get the grant. Our directors should be all over this like a rash NOW, before the Wakey deal is signed and sealed next year threatening to kick up a stink without watertight agreements in place. Sadly they seem to be asleep at the wheel.
The thing is the Axiom deal was only granted as a shopping centre, ground and park. It was only passed because of the ground and the club and it's supporters backing it. If they pull out, I would expect us to get nothing. They can't change the lands use and cut us out. The agreement that wakey failed to get, is the one we've got. Nothing opens into the ground is complete and handed over.

This doesn't stop Axiom from buying the ground part out and paying for a place elsewhere or upgrading WR. But it would need a new application and for Cas to approve it even before it's gets to planning.

Wmdc have helped wakey as they were involved in the deal and it's passing of planning out of duty because it's the right thing to do. And it is, regardless of my feelings for wakey.

I hope it is built but the country is in such a mess from Brexit and covid, I can't see anything in the short or middle term. But if you drive passed the Thorpe springs shipping centre at Colton, you'll find it heaving with cars but only 3/4 of units let. So they are still worthwhile.

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Re: New stadium

Post by The Firm » 19 Nov 2021, 17:49

The Firm wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 17:25
Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
The council are giving a healthy 7 figure cash GRANT to Wakey for use towards the Belle Vue redevelopment, as per the original Newmarket deal. No doubt council tax will be rising next year for all WMDC residents to help pay for it. Thing is the original deal was for a Community Stadium run by a trust for the people of the whole if Wakefield, this time all proceeds of that stadium goes into Wakefield Trinity’s coffers. Nice deal if you can get it, so i expect when Axiom ‘do a Newmarket’ and change the plans for our stadium plot i fully expect the same treatment. Featherstone should also get the grant. Our directors should be all over this like a rash NOW, before the Wakey deal is signed and sealed next year threatening to kick up a stink without watertight agreements in place. Sadly they seem to be asleep at the wheel.
Right on cue....
https://citizen.wakefield.gov.uk/distri ... ign=buffer

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Re: New stadium

Post by The Firm » 19 Nov 2021, 17:57

mart0042 wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 11:12
The Firm wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 17:25
Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
The council are giving a healthy 7 figure cash GRANT to Wakey for use towards the Belle Vue redevelopment, as per the original Newmarket deal. No doubt council tax will be rising next year for all WMDC residents to help pay for it. Thing is the original deal was for a Community Stadium run by a trust for the people of the whole if Wakefield, this time all proceeds of that stadium goes into Wakefield Trinity’s coffers. Nice deal if you can get it, so i expect when Axiom ‘do a Newmarket’ and change the plans for our stadium plot i fully expect the same treatment. Featherstone should also get the grant. Our directors should be all over this like a rash NOW, before the Wakey deal is signed and sealed next year threatening to kick up a stink without watertight agreements in place. Sadly they seem to be asleep at the wheel.
The thing is the Axiom deal was only granted as a shopping centre, ground and park. It was only passed because of the ground and the club and it's supporters backing it. If they pull out, I would expect us to get nothing. They can't change the lands use and cut us out. The agreement that wakey failed to get, is the one we've got. Nothing opens into the ground is complete and handed over.

This doesn't stop Axiom from buying the ground part out and paying for a place elsewhere or upgrading WR. But it would need a new application and for Cas to approve it even before it's gets to planning.

Wmdc have helped wakey as they were involved in the deal and it's passing of planning out of duty because it's the right thing to do. And it is, regardless of my feelings for wakey.

I hope it is built but the country is in such a mess from Brexit and covid, I can't see anything in the short or middle term. But if you drive passed the Thorpe springs shipping centre at Colton, you'll find it heaving with cars but only 3/4 of units let. So they are still worthwhile.
The shopping centre is dead, forget about it ever happening. What needs to happen now is Axiom, the council and the club need to get around the table and find a way forward for that land. Be that housing, be it warehousing or whatever is deemed appropriate. As happened with Wakey a payment to the club in lieu of the stadium could be made to the club for the revenoration of Wheldon Road, a healthy developer profit will still be made. Along with the £2 million council grant i've mentioned above and various options regarding sports grant funding that is available and there should be plenty for a pretty damn good job doing. All it need is a bit of foresight from those in charge of the various organisations.

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Re: New stadium

Post by mart0042 » 22 Nov 2021, 12:32

The Firm wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 17:57
mart0042 wrote: 19 Nov 2021, 11:12
The Firm wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 17:25
Casmania wrote: 18 Nov 2021, 11:13
gateman wrote: 17 Nov 2021, 23:35 it we could have a part of what the council have given Wakey over the years to bail them our we could revamp Weldon road
WMDC, have not given Wakefield anything, they were loans, as is the new loan for the stadium revamp.
Cas have also had loans from WMDC.
The council are giving a healthy 7 figure cash GRANT to Wakey for use towards the Belle Vue redevelopment, as per the original Newmarket deal. No doubt council tax will be rising next year for all WMDC residents to help pay for it. Thing is the original deal was for a Community Stadium run by a trust for the people of the whole if Wakefield, this time all proceeds of that stadium goes into Wakefield Trinity’s coffers. Nice deal if you can get it, so i expect when Axiom ‘do a Newmarket’ and change the plans for our stadium plot i fully expect the same treatment. Featherstone should also get the grant. Our directors should be all over this like a rash NOW, before the Wakey deal is signed and sealed next year threatening to kick up a stink without watertight agreements in place. Sadly they seem to be asleep at the wheel.
The thing is the Axiom deal was only granted as a shopping centre, ground and park. It was only passed because of the ground and the club and it's supporters backing it. If they pull out, I would expect us to get nothing. They can't change the lands use and cut us out. The agreement that wakey failed to get, is the one we've got. Nothing opens into the ground is complete and handed over.

This doesn't stop Axiom from buying the ground part out and paying for a place elsewhere or upgrading WR. But it would need a new application and for Cas to approve it even before it's gets to planning.

Wmdc have helped wakey as they were involved in the deal and it's passing of planning out of duty because it's the right thing to do. And it is, regardless of my feelings for wakey.

I hope it is built but the country is in such a mess from Brexit and covid, I can't see anything in the short or middle term. But if you drive passed the Thorpe springs shipping centre at Colton, you'll find it heaving with cars but only 3/4 of units let. So they are still worthwhile.
The shopping centre is dead, forget about it ever happening. What needs to happen now is Axiom, the council and the club need to get around the table and find a way forward for that land. Be that housing, be it warehousing or whatever is deemed appropriate. As happened with Wakey a payment to the club in lieu of the stadium could be made to the club for the revenoration of Wheldon Road, a healthy developer profit will still be made. Along with the £2 million council grant i've mentioned above and various options regarding sports grant funding that is available and there should be plenty for a pretty damn good job doing. All it need is a bit of foresight from those in charge of the various organisations.
Until the development is dead, we are not in a position to challenge Axiom unfortunately. It would be great to sort this. Maybe there is something going on in the background but we'll be the last to know.

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