BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

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CasRus
Danny Orr
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BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:27 pm

Hi All who are interested to debate this topic now which is a bit of a move away from the "Jeremy Corbyn LOL" exhausted topic which was debated on heavily - that's old news now !

Well Well Well, looks as though "StarShip UK" is definately undocking and setting off in un-chartered territory now and I was looking forward to your comments on the subject on those interested enough to participate.

Labour are mostly backing the deal through gritted teeth, SNP are the usual "FREEEEdom" suspects on independence and are going against it (but would be shooting us into no deal as would any going against the deal).

Yes it's not perfect and was never going to be and having to give away concessions and make it more red-tapey to trade, however Sovereignity is a massive major plus in a load of ways and the opportunities to make trade with undeveloped nations is enormous going forward and 63 Trade Deals have already been established. It does need a lot more work on it over the coming years but it's a start and WE now Control OUR Own Destiny rather than being "yes sir, no sir" EU puppets !

A Big Capitulation on Fishing just now but 5 more years will be a different proposition altogether so a bit more patience on this is needed !

One of the small example pluses I have seen is the stopping of automatic benefits of EU members arriving here and claiming immediate benefits (child care etc) unless they have tax pay contributed into the system for a period of 5 years - we were losing a lot of money on this as the Poles and others were claiming for children living outside of the UK, sending all their money home practically and not spending much here to support the economy. I have always said this is not right and the EU system supported a lot of freeloading at the expense of the UK Taxpayer and thank god we can now sort this out. It should also lessen the illegal immigrant situation of people coming over on boats from France now that we are removing the "Land of Milk and Honey" tag we have been mugged into all these years !!

I am also looking forward to the levelling up of the UK especially in the North and let's hope Boris is held to this !

It's not going to be easy this coming year and there's going to be a lot of pain especially with the hugely damaging added Covid issues but if we can get knuckled down, work hard and get through what pain is coming this year and tax the right people of affluence to cover the debt and provide ongoing tax increases for a period of time to pay for investment, try to support one another where we can with some help for struggling families around us, we can get through this immediate crisis and come out at the other side in a much stronger position.

We are all in it together and it's pointless arguing - it's done and we need to move on and all pull together !! It's not going to be easy - nothing ever is !!

I look forward to constructive thoughts and debate/challenges etc

Fumper27
Kevin Ward
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by Fumper27 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:45 pm

According to Boris this AM, we have access to 130,000 tonnes more fish next year than this.

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alftupper
Luke Gale
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by alftupper » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:36 pm

What’s not to like about being a self governing independent country?

You call the fishing compromise a capitulation but I don’t see it that way, 5 years is nothing and after that we decide the quota of fish EU boats can harvest.

baldtiger
Dean Widders
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by baldtiger » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:10 pm

I hope it all works for us . But I never did understand the massive sell off of the most profitable British owned companies over the last 45 ish years . BP ICI ect ect massive profits going into the governments pockets . We sold off Gas and Electric supplies which are mostly now owned by other countries . For me the great was ripped out of Britain by our own government
. It would need a massive investment in industry and production which has all but gone ! We are now know as a service country, finance, warehouse, distribution, we have a trade deficit of 94 billion with Europe . We made 25 billion profit in finance dealing with Europe but as I understand it that is now not been allowed ? I hope am wrong and Britain starts to grow again but we will have to start from scratch . Just look outside and see which country your car is from .... mine ...................... (France n Japan ) Oh [REMOVED] :roll:

Dokhen
Sean Rudder
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by Dokhen » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:38 am

Well, but it depends on the point in which you see it, it is undoubtedly a quite inclusive way of seeing things from the outside, there is still a lot of things to fit in or that is what at least I realize.

FIat Capper
Junior Moors
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:05 pm

You'll not be surprised by my thoughts and in particular, the effects of a border down the Irish Sea with supermarkets already running out of items.

Whilst I'm sure your Brexitiers will continue to claim tariff free trade but the significantly increased bureaucracy will have to be paid for somehow.

As for the fishing issue, again, on paper it looks beneficial in the long-term but what will be the effects of the red tape issues outlined above. The EU member states are our biggest buyers of fish and I have seen reports showing fish merchants worried a out potential delays. Furthermore, we have yet to agree what the quota's will be in 5 years time, by which time, we may not be in a strong enough position to further strengthen our quota.

As for Sovereignty, we seem to be in pretty much the same position as before; able to pas our own laws, ruled by our majestic Monarch, having to work with some EU regulations to enable trade (with no voice on how to change them1).

I'm sure, as a stand alone, single economy, we can negotiate some terrific trade deals with the worlds powers.

Looking forward to it all...

CasRus
Danny Orr
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:56 pm

To be brutally honest, trying to accomplish a good Brexit now is going to be very difficult as sod's law with the Covid issue has and will continue to scupper a good transition. This is such bad luck that the two have come together and is now causing a meltdown of massive proportions on the domestic front !!!

The Brexit issues pale against very latest Covid news (out of control deaths and spread, new variants with a brazil variant now being the very latest, info arriving that jabs that can only protects for 5 months - that's if you have both jabs and which is in need of clarification. - I am very afraid and despair on what is to come !!!!!!!

Now tie all this in to the global meltdown of nature with plastic riddled oceans, icecaps retracting at an accelerated pace with carbon emissions , huge tracts of jungles being decimated for wood, huge climate changes causing flooding and wildfires around the globe including high altitude ice/water on mountains now ready to disappear which millions rely on for water (Pakistan/Bolivia for example). All of this can be related to the world population doubling since 1972 demanding more resources and making more pollution in destroying the balance of nature.

We as a species are now on very dangerous ground ! Sorry to sound like "the bringer of doom" but the writing is most definitely "on the wall" !!

I just hope we can all keep safe and assist each other as much as we can as we are in a massive hole ! it's going to take a lot of compromise and discussion on every level and a massive pull together irrespective of class - I believe we will have to share cost and resources and that means people "with" will ultimately need to help the people "without" on basic needs like food provision etc.

There's one phrase that really sums it up by referring to Newton's Law - "To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" ! Get ready because we as a species are now in the firing line !!

FIat Capper
Junior Moors
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:33 pm

One thing is for sure Casrus, whatever our positions were on Brexit, we certainly all need to come and work together to help everyone and everything in our beloved country.

CasRus
Danny Orr
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:17 pm

FIat Capper wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:33 pm
One thing is for sure Casrus, whatever our positions were on Brexit, we certainly all need to come and work together to help everyone and everything in our beloved country.
Totally Agree Capper - that's a first for me agreeing with you !! ....ha ha !!

On a global basis, it's going to be a survival of the fittest and whether that will be allowed to be without a massive country to country fallout for ever dwindling resources (which I believe would be inevitable) is something to be aware of.

In the cold light of day on all this is that we are top heavy with people and we as a species need to reduce to say, back to 1972 on population count as a possible guideline, and I think most intelligent people know this - the question is, how do you do this given we are 1 minute to midnight !! I believe that is why a significant amount of people are suspicious of this jab with loads of conspiracy rumours going around about a method of downsizing the population and are baulking at having the jab in case there are medium/long term side effects we are not being told about which for me is "far fetched" however personally, I am fairly wary of these vaccines not having had a long term trial over a number of years before being approved. I think we all remember Thalidomide being approved and causing a birth defect catastrophe - We all have certain belief systems and is up to each and every individual to navigate through the amount of happenings/news/fake news to make sense of what is going on - it's very difficult to form opinions now with so much real and fake news and even suppression going on.

I am dreading whats to come and I think we are indeed fortunate to have lived through the time period that we have been through with some great times behind us - I just hope we don't have to live long enough to watch the world collapse and the pending hardships that may come with it !!!! Beam Me Up Scotty !!

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alftupper
Luke Gale
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by alftupper » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:54 pm

I must say I’m enjoying the totally chaotic response from the Euro Bloc in response to the COVID pandemic. We have absolutely shown them the way, and if ever we needed an example of why we are better out than in, it has come early.

Had the remoaners held sway in the referendum, clearly they would have been responsible for even more deaths by keeping us tied into their ludicrous bureaucracy.

Hepworth7
Dean Widders
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by Hepworth7 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:19 pm

This epdemic is going to test the strength of unity within the EU to the max,the shambolic vaccine rollout and the inequality of it all is already causing rumblings in the member states, Macron has spit his dummy out, The Italian president has resigned as have the entire Dutch government over some other scandal,the Hungarians have gone rogue and bought Sputnik 5 from the Russkis and the rest of Europe are wanting to know why they're not going to get the promised numbers of vaccines, the EU leaders meanwhile are threatening to sue over shipment delays of a vaccines they haven't even approved for use yet,eh? Meanwhile on a small island off the coast have France more than 6 million doses of vaccine have been given which by the time Brussels approve the Oxford vaccine for use will be nearing 9 million. We know mistakes have been made,of course questions need to be answered but in terms of "right now" when it comes to protecting people with the vaccine we're leaving the rest of Europe behind.

FIat Capper
Junior Moors
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:44 pm

I suppose I can acknowledge the attempt to divert attention from the appalling lack of leadership of the government through this crisis by looking for others that seem worse off.

I look forward to the comparisons with the likes of NZ and Thailand who have grasped control of the virus before any vaccine was approved anywhere.

Be thankful for small mercies...

CasRus
Danny Orr
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:29 pm

Yes well Capper, like I have said on many an occasion, the EU project was always going to be a matter of time when the whole thing collapsed when you have 3 countries tops supporting the others financially - and that was when the UK was in !!! This latest fiasco I perceive has sped up the collapsing process in my mind and another Nail/Coffin for the EU on this vaccine rollout now springs to mind !! It also shows them up once again on their bully boy tactics and also shows that we are well rid !!

I just read this morning that Australia are now in the process of a free trade agreement with the UK - If we ever get out of this pandemic we will be in a great trade position while the EU will be in the process of a fragmenting meltdown I feel.

On your comment regarding the handling of the pandemic, you have to remember that you have total lockdowners on one side and business/jobs lobby aggressively wanting to re-open which has been played out this past year and Boris has been pillar and post criticised on both fronts - devil you do, devil you don't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing when you are having to make decisions on the hoof with rapid changing situations which Covid has brought on and we can all say that things could have been done quicker and better now that we can all look back - that's dead easy to do but put yourself in a position without any foresight and I can bet everyone would not have been able to navigate the best and optimum route through on making decisions. Yes things could have been done better but it is very easy to say that now !

FIat Capper
Junior Moors
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:30 pm

I'm sorry Crusty but to keep using the rapid changing situation argument is wearing very thin. The same mistakes are being made time after time.

I am fully aware BJ is under pressure from all sides of the argument but it has been clear for many months now that half-hearted and short lockdowns are not working and are only serving to prolong the economic downturn. Cruel to be kind springs to mind.

As for the EU, looks like their sorted with the vaccines, unlike our import/export delays...

CasRus
Danny Orr
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:14 pm

FIat Capper wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:30 pm
I'm sorry Crusty but to keep using the rapid changing situation argument is wearing very thin. The same mistakes are being made time after time.

I am fully aware BJ is under pressure from all sides of the argument but it has been clear for many months now that half-hearted and short lockdowns are not working and are only serving to prolong the economic downturn. Cruel to be kind springs to mind.

As for the EU, looks like their sorted with the vaccines, unlike our import/export delays...
Rapid Changing Situation is what it is ! - you can't tell me that the argument is wearing very thin when at least 3 variants of Covid have materiallized in the past 2 months and the rapid rise in numbers on deaths and spread have been mainly attributed to this fact !! Keep Up Capper !!!

BJ has been treading both sides of the divide on lockdown and opening up business - The question is, what decision should really be made - Full Lockdown costing thousands of jobs and massive business bust leading to years of oblivion and social disintegration or Fully opening and costing thousands more lives !! Which decision are you (or anyone) for that matter are for as clearly you have to come down to one of those 2 decisions or remain with what BJ has been doing to appease both sides of the argument - You can now See it is very difficult for anyone to be in that "decision making role" as all ways are doomed to criticism - The fact of the matter is whichever way we go, there is going to be a human life cost !

The realisation of all of this is that we are in very severe bad times and this pandemic along with the much bigger issue of "end of world as we know it" climate change is where we (I believe) now need to prepare for the worst and the forming of local action groups will need to be formed sooner rather than later to protect, help, assist local areas of people in food produce and security etc - Let's face it, the government has done a lot to keep us afloat with furlough payments etc but that just can't go on and we will eventually have to take matters into our own hands and try to come together to stop social unrest and breakdown. Some may say this is an over-reaction but I say, it's pointless holding our head in our hands and think its all going to go away... it ain't !! - the end of this year will see masses with no job, furlough finished and nothing to feed their families ! That's when its all going to kick off !!

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