Toronto

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nottinghamtiger
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Re: Toronto

Post by nottinghamtiger » 23 Jul 2020, 18:53

I don’t think they can breeze back into SL in 2021. They’ve unilaterally decided not to fulfil the re-arranged fixture, days after promising to do so.
If (and it’s a big IF) they had said this before the fixtures were all re-scheduled, maybe SL could have organised a fair season without them. But pulling out straight after they had agreed to play the games and the fixtures were published has left the sport in a really difficult position. There might have been some understanding if they had said they couldn’t play from the outset, but doing it once the revised fixtures were confirmed is unacceptable.
Also has to be said that they could have mitigated some of the problems they are citing. Players with Visas could have left the country and returned now, rather than ‘using up’ their allowed time in the UK when they couldn’t play between March and July.
There’s also the issue of non-payment to suppliers and non-payment of player wages. And the claim that they are staring down the barrel of a financial crisis, when they have players earning eye-watering salaries.
There is also the issue that they want to be an exception to every rule. They want to be allowed to break the salary cap and generate negative publicity for the game when they aren’t allowed a higher cap. They want all their home games in the second half of the season. And just today, they have asked for an equal share of the TV money for 2021, even though they promised they wouldn’t do so. For me, most of the attention that Toronto has drawn to the game has been negative.

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Re: Toronto

Post by nottinghamtiger » 23 Jul 2020, 19:22

Officially confirmed that Toronto’s results will be expunged.
We’ve lost two competition points. Points we earned in a game that resulted in long-term injuries, impacting on our other fixtures.
Kick them out.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Tigerade » 23 Jul 2020, 19:26

I cannot believe we have some on here supporting Toronto's failures.

Not paying players on time
Outbidding clubs on signings for 2021
Not paying bills
Failure to land the promised NATV deal
Demanding a payment from SL to get them through 2020
Not getting correct visa's for players
Deciding to sack-off this season 2 weeks before kick off

Come on folks. If this were Tigers they would throw the book at us and rightly so.

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Re: Toronto

Post by HuddsTigers » 23 Jul 2020, 20:49

But your post is factually incorrect in places or is grossly inconsistent with other clubs or historical instances.

Not paying players or companies is bad but that is not something to kick them out over. It reflects badly on them for sure but that is a business decision they have taken /logistical errors. We have had plenty of clubs face winding up orders or not pay bills that we haven't kicked out respective leagues, and even Bradford had their lease bought out to help them.

They were signing players, as were all clubs before we went into lockdown or just after when no one knew how short lived or long the pandemic would be, or even how long fans would be away. At that point they still thought we would be holding a full season and they would be playing in Toronto.

TV deal is a problem for them. Still nothing to kick them out over. They sacrificed Sky TV money for that.

As for demanding a payment, yes, they are asking for some financial help to stay in this country. Expenses no other club has to face bar Catalans and even they are flying back to and from France saving cash. Every other club has access to furlough, government loans and the TV deal. This period was about getting all clubs through and out the other side. Loaning them cash would have avoided all this.

They have got the correct visas, it is the existing government guidance that is the issue. As they are a Canadian club/company, players can only apply for tourist visas. This is the same for anyone coming from Canada. You can only stay in this country six months a year. This is different to UK clubs who can sponsor players and get a sports person's visa.

As for the last point, the timing is bad but it is a culmination of the above. If we didn't have such a self-interested attitude or anti-Toronto agenda in SL, and muddled together to get every club through this and out the other side, they would be playing.

They have to own their bad business decisions and missed payments but other clubs have hardly helped them in these unprecedented circumstances.
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Re: Toronto

Post by Tigerade » 23 Jul 2020, 21:10

Why would a billionairre owner like Argyll want financial help ? The game in THIS country in on it's knees and I don't know if you have noticed Hudds but our financial climate in the UK is also in meltdown. Why would any of the other 11 clubs want to help out the car crash that is Toronto Wolfpack by donating money that we don't have. The RFL have a 16 million pound loan from the government for the game in this country. Why hasn't TWP tried to tap into this instead of sacking off the season ?

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Re: Toronto

Post by nottinghamtiger » 23 Jul 2020, 21:52

Unfortunately their behaviour hasn’t led to them being enamoured by other SL clubs. And they are technically a guest team, with no voting rights. This was the reason the RFL and other SL teams allowed them in - to see if it was sustainable before giving them parity with everyone else.
Since they joined SL, we’ve heard demands about when they want to pay at home (wanting to play all away matches first and then all home matches in the second half of the season), demands to be allowed to breach the salary cap (despite signing two marquee players on massive salaries), demands to be allowed more non-federation trained players. Last week they had the nerve to ask other clubs for £200k. Today they have demanded an equal slice of the Sky money, despite not taking this this being a condition of their entry into SL. They promised to find a TV deal in North America and thought that would give them more than the Sky money, but now they have failed to get one it’s back to wanting a slice of the Sky money that they agreed not to ask for.
All that, however, is background to their decision to refuse to fulfil fixtures at the very last moment. They turned what should have been positive news of the season re-start into another negative RL story in the press. For that I’m sure the clubs will exclude them from SL, but that decision will be influenced by Toronto’s arrogant and petulant behaviour in the shirt time they have been a top-flight club.

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Re: Toronto

Post by casjunction » 23 Jul 2020, 22:06

Why would business rivals give a financial hand to a competitor wgen they have an uncertain future and that rival signed the most expensive player contract in Rugby League.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Fumper27 » 23 Jul 2020, 22:22

casjunction wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 22:06 Why would business rivals give a financial hand to a competitor wgen they have an uncertain future and that rival signed the most expensive player contract in Rugby League.
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Re: Toronto

Post by stevieblunder » 23 Jul 2020, 22:47

Unfortunately the normal Rugby fans of this world have no voice at the ' top table'.

Big money deals, very large brown envelopes and questionable decisions are not something we can even question.

Sit down, shut up and be grateful for any scraps of bread they give you.
Money talks.
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Re: Toronto

Post by lurcher » 23 Jul 2020, 23:06

Tigerade wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 19:26 I cannot believe we have some on here supporting Toronto's failures.

Not paying players on time
Outbidding clubs on signings for 2021
Not paying bills
Failure to land the promised NATV deal
Demanding a payment from SL to get them through 2020
Not getting correct visa's for players
Deciding to sack-off this season 2 weeks before kick off

Come on folks. If this were Tigers they would throw the book at us and rightly so.
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Re: Toronto

Post by Ken Smith » 24 Jul 2020, 09:41

Cas have now been placed at a disadvantage with Toronto’ s late withdrawal. We were due to play them the week after the Cup match against York which is also in doubt meaning Cas will probably have two consecutive free weekends soon after the season resumes. It’s unfortunate but I wonder whether it’s feasible now at this late stage for Cas to rearrange a league match against Huddersfield who are already eliminated from the Challenge Cup or against Wakefield or any other club whose Cup match will be postponed through the draw having them pitted against a Championship club unlikely to be able to fulfill its fixture.

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Re: Toronto

Post by StevieTheTV » 28 Jul 2020, 08:00

Ken Smith wrote: 24 Jul 2020, 09:41 Cas have now been placed at a disadvantage with Toronto’ s late withdrawal. We were due to play them the week after the Cup match against York which is also in doubt meaning Cas will probably have two consecutive free weekends soon after the season resumes. It’s unfortunate but I wonder whether it’s feasible now at this late stage for Cas to rearrange a league match against Huddersfield who are already eliminated from the Challenge Cup or against Wakefield or any other club whose Cup match will be postponed through the draw having them pitted against a Championship club unlikely to be able to fulfill its fixture.
My guess will be the cup will be re-drawn. Teams like York and Featherstone cannot be expected to play in the comp, more from a player welfare perspective than anything else.

The winners of this years CC will always have a * next to their name but for me I dont care, go all out for a trophy, we were well on our way to looking like the best team before lock down, i just hope we can pick up that momentum after the restart.

My thoughts on Toronto are about 60/40. At first I was all about demoting them from next season and having a mini tournament between Championship clubs (who wished to take part) for the open SL spot for next season. However, Toronto do have exceptional circumstances and these should definitely be taken into account. I believe the only options available are demotion to the Championship or an 8 point deduction in points for next season. What they have done is brought the game into disrepute, it doesnt matter if they are an affiliated member or a full member. This is worse than any salary cap breach etc and should be punished accordingly, not taking into account any of the other gumph that comes with them (fixture mess, paying players and creditors late).

Anyway, 5 days until the return of some form of rugby, im going to miss scrums!
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