BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

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CasRus
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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 16 Feb 2021, 23:14

FIat Capper wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 18:53 Nope, you've not answered the question about international laws and agreements that also favour us. Once we encounter them at sea we are obliged to rescue them. Changing this requires a little more than domestic laws and will not help our desire to work with the wider world. How do we change our part in these international agreements without losing the co-operation of other nations?

The claim for asylum is not limited to those in desperate need of protection, it is used by those you refer to. Those looking for this gravy train we apparently provide. Many others that land unhindered simply slip into the underworld of society, undetected. Many will still attempt this passage in spite of the risk of gunships mowing them down. They've travelled across many war torn countries to get to the channel, they've already put their lives at risk, they are not deterred by the threat of being sent back or even death.

The much aligned gravy train for immigrants is like the tax system for the wealthy. There's always those that exploit it to the detriment of the majority.

Of the few, far fewer than the claimed 95% you state, that you want to put to work in cabbage fields, many are likely to respond negatively to being Forced into labour camps and this will once again fuel hatred not reduce it. We, and they are not animals.

Lets not forget there are many women and children making the crossing and all are human beings. Let's not forget that.

Once again, how will Brexit improve the situation?
Yes we rescue them, immediate isolation and deportation is then administered, simple !!

Discussing the other option I tabled in an ideal covid free UK, If these young illegals make it in and after quarantine, give them an option, immediate deportation or 5 years labour just to qualify to stay in and at least qualify and offset for qualifying to our benefit system. If they don't like staying to work their way in, tough, they get deported. Why are we, the taxpayer, who contribute have these illegals walking straight in with Hotel 4* digs, fed and clothed and then pick up benefits !!! We have ex servicemen a plenty living out on the streets with mental issues and no help and they don't even get that special offer to stay in 4* hotels and be fed and watered like these illegals are enjoying - It's totally wrong !!
I don' t know whether you have seen the documentary when a team went in to a high class hotel and knocked on room doors and found scores of illegals housed in there - Lots of people can't even afford that standard to stay in a hotel never mind these illegals - TOTALLY WRONG !!

On your point of try try again, I don't think they will ever try again after being deported as just trying to pay the gangs in France to get them in would have drained their life savings and to try yet again even if they save back up or have enough for a second try would be foolish knowing they may get the same result !!

These women as you say with children know the extreme risk they take in trying to cross, it's their choice.

From our perspective, we also know that they could be importing a serious covid mutant and also have Isis amongst them - WE, THE UK PEOPLE ARE HUMANS ALSO and we need to protect ourselves - God help us if they bring a strain in and our vaccines are in-effective !! Are you willing to gamble on destroying our patience over these months in lockdown and ultimately, destroy our country and economy ??? I wouldn't if I was in charge !!! THE RISK IS TOO ENORMOUS !! WE NEED TO GET REAL !! Even Germany reported today is now looking to completely close it's borders to Czechoslovakia, Austria and a couple more countries - that should tell you a very big story !!

Your question, "how will Brexit improve the situation" - do I really need to explain this as Brexit has already had us with a massive boost on vaccination , and if we had stayed in the EU, we would be looking to stay in Lockdown till end of next year by the look of it and ultimately having no economy or industry left !! The EU are now sh.t scared of the UK excelling while they bicker amongst themselves and are throwing a load of dirty tricks at us (haven't you noticed !) and a clamour of EU countries are ready to exit as you may have seen this week !! Brexit will allow us the space to decide what is best instead of a "feathering of nest" Brussels which EU counrtres are now waking up to as a complete detriment to themselves !! Le Penn in France will defo make Frexit happen next year (Macron is a dead man walking !), Holland, Italy, Sweden will follow and the EU will be in tatters and history !! That's my prediction !!

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 17 Feb 2021, 12:18

No, you've not answered the question, how will Brexit allow us to remove our international obligations, bring in laws that alienate us from others across the world? These obligations mean we simply cannot deport them without first meeting the agreed criteria. You may have seen local news reports of a Portuguese man facing deportation because it's been deemed he has no case to stay. We do deport them when required.

In you're response you've just changed the subject matter and gone on, and on, and on again about your opinions on why Brexit is better for us overall. No mention of my question.

The life of luxury is not the norm but we have become reliant upon housing them where we can because we do not have an adequate number of detention places. I agree that they should be assessed thoroughly and treated in line with the international obligations. The deportation issue would only encourage more criminal activity. they will come again but try even harder to avoid detection. This would increase the poor living conditions, slave labour for criminal gangs and so on. Human trafficking would simply increase.

Tying the humane treatment of immigrants into how we treat vets is just more scaremongering. What should happen is the wealthy taxpayer should pay more to help provide better support for ALL our vulnerable citizens. Adequate taxation is something we've always been able to decide upon, inside or outside of the EU.

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 17 Feb 2021, 13:55

Capper, International Obligations are used and abused by many a country including ones that are deemed civilised (i.e. Look at Australia with the boat people coming over and shooing them off) ! We are free to make our own rules and laws now so making it really difficult to enter and adopting strict deportation if they try. And by the way, we don't have enough housing for the people we have in let alone the thousands who are trying to get in.

Anyway, enough of that topic, here's one story that really made me laugh this morning in respect of that Smug Faced Labour Dinosaur "Thornberry":-

Stop whinging! Emily Thornberry shamed for attacking Brexit trade 'heroine' Liz Truss
Steven Brown 1 hour ago

Opposition parties wrote to Ms Truss to accuse her of refusing to answer questions about post-Brexit trade with Europe on key issues such as a ban on the EU of UK shellfish exports. Ms Truss, however, has been defended by angry Express.co.uk commenters, who praised her for securing billions of pounds worth of Brexit deals.

Readers urged the opposition signatories, including Emily Thornberry, to leave Ms Truss alone so she could continue her work.

One reader commented: "Of course, the UK hating Thornberry is clucking like a hen being chased by a butcher with an axe.

"Truss has done more for our country than Thornberry and her pals will ever do.

"Thornberry is on record for decrying both our flag and decent workers.

"Please do not let these tripe, second rate politicians do us down."

Another said: "Let Liz get on with her job. Securing trade deals around the world."

Someone else said: "We have a Government minister who is actually doing her job unlike some of her male colleagues.

"She is winning trade deals for this country which will bear fruit in time and yet we have the same old bitter Remainers who are still trying to undermine Brexit.

"Very much sour grapes."

A fourth reader said: "Dame Liz Truss is far too intelligent to be drawn into a poisonous trap concocted by that fake socialist blob of lard, frustrated and embittered by her and her ridiculous splinter group's total lack of traction with the British public.

"Liz is busy bringing in the bacon for British free trade, and is doing a fantastic job DESPITE the evil traitors in our midst, who would rather see Britain fail than admit their lie and Project Fear were wrong.

"The ballot box does not lie Thornberry, you have been totally rejected by the British people, so just try to show some class and be quiet, leave international trade to the elected experts."

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by baldtiger » 17 Feb 2021, 15:47

Personally I would wait to see what these trade deals are going to cost us . I cant help feeling we are in a weak position as our manufacturing has almost disappeared . Now we are on our own its a dog eat dog in the wider world , you just have to look at America slavering at the thought of buying in to our NHS . Demanding that all meat products don't have a country of origin so we wont know at we are eating meat that contains growth hormones ect ( banned in Europe ). I wouldn't trust them an inch ! Also yes we are out of Europe but since the Tories sold almost every asset we ever owned . We are controlled from the owners of our Electric, Gas, Fuel, Medicines, Google, Amazon, Cars . etc. Most of which don't even pay there share of taxes .. I hope we can pull out of the mess but I feel no uk government is going to invest in the infrastructure that is now required I hope am wrong !!
PS. I think you will find we could decide what laws to have before we ever left Europe . .

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 17 Feb 2021, 16:31

baldtiger wrote: 17 Feb 2021, 15:47 Personally I would wait to see what these trade deals are going to cost us . I cant help feeling we are in a weak position as our manufacturing has almost disappeared . Now we are on our own its a dog eat dog in the wider world , you just have to look at America slavering at the thought of buying in to our NHS . Demanding that all meat products don't have a country of origin so we wont know at we are eating meat that contains growth hormones ect ( banned in Europe ). I wouldn't trust them an inch ! Also yes we are out of Europe but since the Tories sold almost every asset we ever owned . We are controlled from the owners of our Electric, Gas, Fuel, Medicines, Google, Amazon, Cars . etc. Most of which don't even pay there share of taxes .. I hope we can pull out of the mess but I feel no uk government is going to invest in the infrastructure that is now required I hope am wrong !!
PS. I think you will find we could decide what laws to have before we ever left Europe . .
Not another remoaner!

Seriously though, these are the question the Brexitiers don't want to answer and, as highlighted by the post about Liz Truss, it's the same with questions about trade with Europe.

There are genuine problems being encountered by many business, particularly SME's, trying to trade with our closest market. All the gov't and it's supports can say is forget the bad news, we've got a deal with India that will see billions of pounds of cheap, low standard imports flood into our country.

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 17 Feb 2021, 19:21

There is a lot of speculation choose whichever standpoint you take on having either wanted to remain in or out of the EU.

What's Done is Done , it is now what it is and the proof of the pudding will obviously and indeed reveal itself to be right or wrong in the coming years as to which was the better course of action to have taken.

The best course of action now is to get behind Brexit and let's try to make it successful rather than torpedo'ing as that will not achieve anything and will make more damage than good.

This was never going to be easy to break away from the EU and yes there will be pain before the gain - I tend to think it will be a longer road to make an assessment on the decision to come out was made(probably a 5-10 year period) but personally right now, I'm quite convinced that the UK will be flying high at the end of the day and much better than being tagged down by a slow moving EU juggernaut which I believe will crash very soon anyway in the next 2-3 years !

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by Tigers1926 » 17 Feb 2021, 21:44

I'll tell you what we should do, and that is to look after ourselves and our own first before any immigrants who are in the UK or thinking of coming to the UK. We have to stop the handouts, the houses and benefits for starters. We have ex military men and women sleeping rough on the streets, so how dare anyone say a immigrant comes before those who have served our country and hit hard times. The French do have immigrants and i can tell you that they are not welcome whatsoever, as the French people are right wing and it is definitely French first for them. I have seen the local gendarmes on the old national roads in France pointing immigrants in the direction of Calais. As for having to rescue them, we shouldn't, as the French escort them from their waters to ours which is absolutely shocking and should not be happening. In fact we should be patrolling the edge of our waters to make sure it doesn't happen. Now we are out of the EU it should be easier to protect our borders and answer to nobody. The French and the Italians want to leave the EU, so watch this space. I bet there aren't many countries contributed more than the UK to help these countries out too. Give it a few years (which will fly by) and let's see where we are. We've absolutely got to be better off running ourselves than being told who can and can't come to the UK and in charge of our laws etc. I'll leave you with this one, a truck driver is responsible for any immigrants found in the back of their truck, even if they didn't know anyone is in the back of their truck, and it's a four figure fine for each one!!

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by alftupper » 17 Feb 2021, 23:05

On the subject of useless layabouts who contribute nothing to our economy and way of life, who let Feki in?

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 18 Feb 2021, 11:32

alftupper wrote: 17 Feb 2021, 23:05 On the subject of useless layabouts who contribute nothing to our economy and way of life, who let Feki in?
Unlike his efforts for Cas, he scored highly on the immigration points system! :D

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 18 Feb 2021, 11:47

FIat Capper wrote: 18 Feb 2021, 11:32
alftupper wrote: 17 Feb 2021, 23:05 On the subject of useless layabouts who contribute nothing to our economy and way of life, who let Feki in?
Unlike his efforts for Cas, he scored highly on the immigration points system! :D
Apparently he is now wowing his team mates in training !!! Hope that is a good sign for the Cas season to come !!

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by alftupper » 18 Feb 2021, 12:22

CasRus wrote: 18 Feb 2021, 11:47
FIat Capper wrote: 18 Feb 2021, 11:32
alftupper wrote: 17 Feb 2021, 23:05 On the subject of useless layabouts who contribute nothing to our economy and way of life, who let Feki in?
Unlike his efforts for Cas, he scored highly on the immigration points system! :D
Apparently he is now wowing his team mates in training !!! Hope that is a good sign for the Cas season to come !!
Have a look on ‘all things tigers’ to see how his pre-season is going. Unfortunately when we hear of him ‘ripping it up’ in training it refers to his Achilles’ tendon not his effort.

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 21 Feb 2021, 15:01

:dance: :dance: :dance:

India trade deal worth £100billion is the ultimate Brexit dividend, Boris Johnson is told
BORIS JOHNSON has been told securing a massive trade deal with India is the ultimate Brexit dividend - and one which has the potential to rescue western democracy in the face of China's resurgence.
By CIARAN MCGRATH
PUBLISHED: 08:30, Sun, Feb 21, 2021 | UPDATED: 12:16, Sun, Feb 21, 2021

Daniel Hannan - officially, Lord Hannan of Kingsclere - was speaking after the visit to the country by International Trade secretary Liz Truss, during which she unveiled an enhanced trade partnership which could pave the way for a agreement some experts estimate could be worth as much as £100billion. Writing in the Telegraph, Lord Hannan, a former Tory MEP, said if any Western country could enjoy a “mutually beneficial” trade deal with India, led by President Narendra Modi, it was Britain, home as it was to 1.5million people of Indian descent.

“That complementarity derives, ultimately, from the fact that India, like Britain, is an Anglophone, common law, parliamentary nation – which might just prove the single most important geopolitical fact of the twenty-first century.”

The coronavirus pandemic has speeded up the shift in power from the West to China, which was the only major economy to have grown in comparison with last year.

Lord Hannan added: “Whether that shift also means a more authoritarian world depends largely on whether India self-defines primarily as an English-speaking democracy or as an Asian superpower.”

He said: “It is true that Britain’s relationship with India was not always easy, and the intellectual currents that have led to statue-smashing here are felt, too, on the subcontinent.

“Yet there is also an unmistakeable affinity and affection between the two countries – an affection that the free world may yet have cause to appreciate.”

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by Tigers1926 » 22 Feb 2021, 08:56

Some facts there CasRus, and you can't argue with facts. As for China, countries and In particular the people of these countries, including the UK should stop relying on products and services from China. To me, it is one basket we should be very keen on keeping our eggs out of..

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 22 Feb 2021, 11:44

Sadly, it contains no facts but at best a guestimate on how much the deal could be worth. What it doesn't clarify is who will benefit most from the trade deal.

As you point out 1926, we need to stop relying on cheap imports from China. However, simply replacing them with similarly cheap imports from India is not the bet way to improve our economy. We need trade deals that will require vast improvements to our manufacturing sector, creating jobs and reducing poverty, particularly in the 'Red Wall' areas BJ has promised to improve.

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 22 Feb 2021, 13:44

FIat Capper wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 11:44 Sadly, it contains no facts but at best a guestimate on how much the deal could be worth. What it doesn't clarify is who will benefit most from the trade deal.

As you point out 1926, we need to stop relying on cheap imports from China. However, simply replacing them with similarly cheap imports from India is not the bet way to improve our economy. We need trade deals that will require vast improvements to our manufacturing sector, creating jobs and reducing poverty, particularly in the 'Red Wall' areas BJ has promised to improve.
Glass Half Empty comment again eh Capper !! You need to start humming that Monty Python song "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" going around doing your daily chores instead of reaching for that sharp knife to slit your wrists !! :-({|=

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 22 Feb 2021, 14:33

CasRus wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 13:44
FIat Capper wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 11:44 Sadly, it contains no facts but at best a guestimate on how much the deal could be worth. What it doesn't clarify is who will benefit most from the trade deal.

As you point out 1926, we need to stop relying on cheap imports from China. However, simply replacing them with similarly cheap imports from India is not the bet way to improve our economy. We need trade deals that will require vast improvements to our manufacturing sector, creating jobs and reducing poverty, particularly in the 'Red Wall' areas BJ has promised to improve.
Glass Half Empty comment again eh Capper !! You need to start humming that Monty Python song "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" going around doing your daily chores instead of reaching for that sharp knife to slit your wrists !! :-({|=
Oh contraire. I'm looking forward to drinking my Himalayan spring water out of my half-full Indian made [plastic] glass. :P

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 22 Feb 2021, 16:33

FIat Capper wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 14:33
CasRus wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 13:44
FIat Capper wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 11:44 Sadly, it contains no facts but at best a guestimate on how much the deal could be worth. What it doesn't clarify is who will benefit most from the trade deal.

As you point out 1926, we need to stop relying on cheap imports from China. However, simply replacing them with similarly cheap imports from India is not the bet way to improve our economy. We need trade deals that will require vast improvements to our manufacturing sector, creating jobs and reducing poverty, particularly in the 'Red Wall' areas BJ has promised to improve.
Glass Half Empty comment again eh Capper !! You need to start humming that Monty Python song "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" going around doing your daily chores instead of reaching for that sharp knife to slit your wrists !! :-({|=
Oh contraire. I'm looking forward to drinking my Himalayan spring water out of my half-full Indian made [plastic] glass. :P
Touche !! ha ha !! nice to see you have a bit of comedy in you also Capper !! Yes get your Himalayan Fresh Unadulterated Spring Water before all the Glaciers melt away like the recent one and out of an Indian made glass (not plastic tut tut !!)

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 22 Feb 2021, 16:51

I know I don't come across as such but I do fully understand that the world is our oyster and free trade should be possible. I just strikes me that we are no longer in a position where we can demand the rules of deal.

Being part of one of the largest trading blocks in the world made our negotiating position stronger.

I can only live in hope that the Indian trade deal will see us net exporters, hopefully with the Green economy leading the way to help maintain those glaciers.

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by CasRus » 22 Feb 2021, 17:19

FIat Capper wrote: 22 Feb 2021, 16:51 I know I don't come across as such but I do fully understand that the world is our oyster and free trade should be possible. I just strikes me that we are no longer in a position where we can demand the rules of deal.

Being part of one of the largest trading blocks in the world made our negotiating position stronger.

I can only live in hope that the Indian trade deal will see us net exporters, hopefully with the Green economy leading the way to help maintain those glaciers.
Don't forget the other trade deals in the pipeline especially the Oz/Canada tie up - there is also a lot of upsurge just going on with all of this as reports coming out today that the £ has got back to pre-brexit vote levels, confidence is returning and predictions are that we will bounce back very strongly on the economy which has been as a result of the vaccination program being rolled out fairly quickly. To sum it up, a whole lot of analysts are getting very excited on the UK's brightening prospects over the next few years so let's hope it all comes to fruition ! Space Rocket launch site in Cornwall backed by Branson and Green Tech as you say leading the way all point to massive growth potential also with other projects on the drawing boards !! We could become a Singapore/Mini China type growth economy if we play our cards right !!!

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Re: BREXIT - Good or Bad ??

Post by FIat Capper » 22 Feb 2021, 18:28

Don't forget, a lot of money can be made from importing goods and that remains my main worry. I've seen very little detail on the deals we've already struck and in particular, what they offer the exporters of this country.

I understand the upsurge in the pound is based on our vaccine program success and the likelihood we'll be able to start spending again soon. I'm worried the online shopping bonanza will expand and world trade deals will make it easier for overseas companies to move in on this market.

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