AGM

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Casmania
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Re: AGM

Post by Casmania » 03 Jan 2020, 20:06

HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:55
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:45 The shares were spread out more evenly then, no-one had overall control. (unlike now) It needed a number of share holders to vote the same way to pass a resolution etc (unlike now)
The share in 2016 and 2018 were alloted to Ian and Janet Fulton. They were not made available to anyone else.
But by and large JF/IF and JF have had the largest shareholdings historically so given that was the case, surely while questions could be asked, they still could control the club as they do now?

Were votes determined on % split of shares in the room on the day or % of total shares issued? And is it 51% for a majority or was it higher like 66%?
No, Richard Wright was the largest shareholder.

As I've stated, it required a number of shareholders voting the same way in order for something to be voted through/out. The Fultons could not obtain even a simple majority on their own.

The ‰ majority required is dependant on the type of resolution. Only those who voted on the day or by proxy were counted.
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Re: AGM

Post by HuddsTigers » 03 Jan 2020, 20:13

Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:06
HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:55
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:45 The shares were spread out more evenly then, no-one had overall control. (unlike now) It needed a number of share holders to vote the same way to pass a resolution etc (unlike now)
The share in 2016 and 2018 were alloted to Ian and Janet Fulton. They were not made available to anyone else.
But by and large JF/IF and JF have had the largest shareholdings historically so given that was the case, surely while questions could be asked, they still could control the club as they do now?

Were votes determined on % split of shares in the room on the day or % of total shares issued? And is it 51% for a majority or was it higher like 66%?
No, Richard Wright was the largest shareholder.

As I've stated, it required a number of shareholders voting the same way in order for something to be voted through/out. The Fultons could not obtain even a simple majority on their own.

The ‰ majority required is dependant on the type of resolution. Only those who voted on the day or by proxy were counted.
I know you said that but wouldn't it have taken the vast majority of people on the day/literally everyone opposing them on anything to decide a different course, made especially harder given people would vote with them? I know it was possible but surely it was incredibly unlikely?
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Re: AGM

Post by Casmania » 03 Jan 2020, 20:21

HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:13
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:06
HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:55
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:45 The shares were spread out more evenly then, no-one had overall control. (unlike now) It needed a number of share holders to vote the same way to pass a resolution etc (unlike now)
The share in 2016 and 2018 were alloted to Ian and Janet Fulton. They were not made available to anyone else.
But by and large JF/IF and JF have had the largest shareholdings historically so given that was the case, surely while questions could be asked, they still could control the club as they do now?

Were votes determined on % split of shares in the room on the day or % of total shares issued? And is it 51% for a majority or was it higher like 66%?
No, Richard Wright was the largest shareholder.

As I've stated, it required a number of shareholders voting the same way in order for something to be voted through/out. The Fultons could not obtain even a simple majority on their own.

The ‰ majority required is dependant on the type of resolution. Only those who voted on the day or by proxy were counted.
I know you said that but wouldn't it have taken the vast majority of people on the day/literally everyone opposing them on anything to decide a different course, made especially harder given people would vote with them? I know it was possible but surely it was incredibly unlikely?
You are missing the point slightly. The Fultons had less than 30‰ of the shares, they needed other shareholders to obtain a majority.
That is not the case now.
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Re: AGM

Post by castigers2010 » 03 Jan 2020, 20:27

Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:21
HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:13
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:06
HuddsTigers wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:55
Casmania wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 19:45 The shares were spread out more evenly then, no-one had overall control. (unlike now) It needed a number of share holders to vote the same way to pass a resolution etc (unlike now)
The share in 2016 and 2018 were alloted to Ian and Janet Fulton. They were not made available to anyone else.
But by and large JF/IF and JF have had the largest shareholdings historically so given that was the case, surely while questions could be asked, they still could control the club as they do now?

Were votes determined on % split of shares in the room on the day or % of total shares issued? And is it 51% for a majority or was it higher like 66%?
No, Richard Wright was the largest shareholder.

As I've stated, it required a number of shareholders voting the same way in order for something to be voted through/out. The Fultons could not obtain even a simple majority on their own.

The ‰ majority required is dependant on the type of resolution. Only those who voted on the day or by proxy were counted.
I know you said that but wouldn't it have taken the vast majority of people on the day/literally everyone opposing them on anything to decide a different course, made especially harder given people would vote with them? I know it was possible but surely it was incredibly unlikely?
You are missing the point slightly. The Fultons had less than 30‰ of the shares, they needed other shareholders to obtain a majority.
That is not the case now.
Exactly Casmania, If the Fultons wanted something passing, they needed support of other shareholders, presumably the ones with the highest amount of shares to back their plan otherwise they couldn't get it passed.

Not been funny here HuddsTigers but your view on things would probably cheese a few long term shareholders off who feel let down by the way the Fulton family went about gaining overall control of the club.

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Re: AGM

Post by tigerfeat » 03 Jan 2020, 20:47

Some of this stuff worries me whats IF end game is he going to drop cas in it especially if the new grounds not built or is he committed to build the club
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Re: AGM

Post by duke street 10 » 03 Jan 2020, 20:57

tigerfeat wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:47 Some of this stuff worries me whats IF end game is he going to drop cas in it especially if the new grounds not built or is he committed to build the club
I'm worrying already. I think the new ground is dead in the water and this is what the Fulton's were banking on.

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Re: AGM

Post by nottinghamtiger » 03 Jan 2020, 22:03

duke street 10 wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:57
tigerfeat wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:47 Some of this stuff worries me whats IF end game is he going to drop cas in it especially if the new grounds not built or is he committed to build the club
I'm worrying already. I think the new ground is dead in the water and this is what the Fulton's were banking on.
I’m not sure that’s true. The best thing for Ian Fulton would be for the new ground to be built. He would be the majority shareholder in a club that owns a brand new, and more importantly free, stadium. The potential income from that is huge for him and the value of his shares, if he ever sold them, would be many, many times higher than they are now.
However, if there comes a time when the new stadium hopes are ended, that potential is gone instantly. At that point, financially the best thing for him to do would be to wind the club up and sell all assets. He stands no chance of making a long-term gain out of the club in its current state, and the lack of investment in WR suggests he knows that.
More so than ever before, we need that new stadium.

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Re: AGM

Post by duke street 10 » 03 Jan 2020, 22:23

nottinghamtiger wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 22:03
duke street 10 wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:57
tigerfeat wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:47 Some of this stuff worries me whats IF end game is he going to drop cas in it especially if the new grounds not built or is he committed to build the club
I'm worrying already. I think the new ground is dead in the water and this is what the Fulton's were banking on.
I’m not sure that’s true. The best thing for Ian Fulton would be for the new ground to be built. He would be the majority shareholder in a club that owns a brand new, and more importantly free, stadium. The potential income from that is huge for him and the value of his shares, if he ever sold them, would be many, many times higher than they are now.
However, if there comes a time when the new stadium hopes are ended, that potential is gone instantly. At that point, financially the best thing for him to do would be to wind the club up and sell all assets. He stands no chance of making a long-term gain out of the club in its current state, and the lack of investment in WR suggests he knows that.
More so than ever before, we need that new stadium.
My bad. I phrased it wrong...its been a long day!. Meant Fulton is banking on the new ground being built. I dont think it will happen now.

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Re: AGM

Post by nottinghamtiger » 03 Jan 2020, 22:56

duke street 10 wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 22:23
nottinghamtiger wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 22:03
duke street 10 wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:57
tigerfeat wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:47 Some of this stuff worries me whats IF end game is he going to drop cas in it especially if the new grounds not built or is he committed to build the club
I'm worrying already. I think the new ground is dead in the water and this is what the Fulton's were banking on.
I’m not sure that’s true. The best thing for Ian Fulton would be for the new ground to be built. He would be the majority shareholder in a club that owns a brand new, and more importantly free, stadium. The potential income from that is huge for him and the value of his shares, if he ever sold them, would be many, many times higher than they are now.
However, if there comes a time when the new stadium hopes are ended, that potential is gone instantly. At that point, financially the best thing for him to do would be to wind the club up and sell all assets. He stands no chance of making a long-term gain out of the club in its current state, and the lack of investment in WR suggests he knows that.
More so than ever before, we need that new stadium.
My bad. I phrased it wrong...its been a long day!. Meant Fulton is banking on the new ground being built. I dont think it will happen now.
Ah, I think you phrased it well but I read it wrong - yes, I think he was (and still is) holding on whilst ever there is a possibility the new stadium will materialise.

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Re: AGM

Post by Robbo » 04 Jan 2020, 19:24

lets go back a stage.

There were 60,000 issued shares and Fultons and Richard W had 12000 each. the rest were split.

At the time of the loans being granted they were secured with a charge on the ground.

In my opinion that was enough.

If anyone wants to read the minutes from previous AGMS I asked multiple times when we were borrowing all this money what the plan was if and when JF passed away.

I was told not to worry.
Things changed slightly and I am guessing there was tax to pay on this loan. ( that could have been avoided)

As for not doing anything .............I called two EGMS in 15 years the last one ruined my relationship with Steve Gill.
It was to force them to call a meeting.
There are a number of reasons why they might not want shareholders asking difficult questions but its got a bad smell about it.
For years I said corporate Governance was non existent at the club.
I warned before and I warned shareholders at the meeting.
However an ex Chairman said he backed them as he trusted them.

He has not been seen since at the meetings.
Its quite simple.
Leg lifted and rolled over is a nice way to phrase it.
As I say what goes around comes around.
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Re: AGM

Post by Frankas » 11 Jan 2020, 11:12

Robbo you must know plenty of fellow business people, with plenty of clout behind them. Why not try to get a consortium behind you, and buy them out, I don't know how committed Ian and his sisters are to the club, but has it stands they basically own the club. I would hate to think they would cash in and cripple, or even destroy the club, Jack will be turning in his grave, if that is true.
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Re: AGM

Post by Robbo » 11 Jan 2020, 13:41

I suggested at the AGM that we find some investors to repay the Fulton loan and Ian would not hear of it.

Maybe at that stage he thought ownership of the club may be worth having if the new ground came off.

Our options at that stage were to
Re finance the club by repaying the loans. Clearly we would have had to offer some interest on the loan much as Ian is now.

I had looked at deferring the interest but did not favour that option.

The club then should have been run as a community club by the shareholders and interested parties.

Now we have a situation where full control re voting rights and decision making is in a very few hands with no corporate structure to protect the interests of the club.

Has anyone considered the mess if anything happened to Ian or Janet ( god forbid)?

I am sorry but we are entering the end game here and those involved in running the club in the past have either moved on or are retired.
I give the club 5 years maximum to survive without a full restructure/fundraising etc.
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Re: AGM

Post by Piquad1 » 12 Jan 2020, 05:53

Good comments Robbo. I read your posts with great interest. You seem to know hell of a lot more than me about these issues so I look forward to further input when the occasion arises. Piquad

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Re: AGM

Post by tigerfeat » 12 Jan 2020, 08:33

Frankas wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 11:12 Robbo you must know plenty of fellow business people, with plenty of clout behind them. Why not try to get a consortium behind you, and buy them out, I don't know how committed Ian and his sisters are to the club, but has it stands they basically own the club. I would hate to think they would cash in and cripple, or even destroy the club, Jack will be turning in his grave, if that is true.
Wish I could win the Euro millions before I pop my clogs id buy the club ,build a new ground and Mitchell and Tedesco would be my first two marquees
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: AGM

Post by ERG2012 » 12 Jan 2020, 10:34

Just by looking on companies house and the shares owned kind of tells its own story.

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Re: AGM

Post by duke street 10 » 15 Jan 2020, 19:27

So have we all to guess how much the club lost last season?

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Re: AGM

Post by Robbo » 15 Jan 2020, 19:41

year end was November so ask the question in August you might get an answer
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