Toronto

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Re: Toronto

Post by HuddsTigers » 07 Oct 2019, 12:53

mart0042 wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 09:52 Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water or Cas because Toronto have been promoted. Let's see what happens.

First thing we know is that the 11 remaining teams will get Torontos share of the sky money. So we are nearly 200k up.

Secondly, they are signing a couple of stars, with Sonny bill being one touted. Plus the mystery of playing them should put extra on the gates. Maybe not as many ss Fev would but you save money in the extra security.

Thirdly, we don't know how having Toronto in will effect the sky contact negotiations. I can only see it being positive.

Time will tell but I wouldn't stop watching Cas because another team got promoted. Hopefully I can find the money to go away to watch them.
Bang on.

The sport is dying and playing in our little bubble is not going to help anyone invest or bring money into the game, which it desperately needs.

Toronto have, by and large, helped bring larger crowds to clubs they have played against with a lot having crowds above their average or even record crowds. They've got in media publications that rugby league could only dream of, as well as being promoted by other sporting brands in the city such as the Blue Jays.

They have also brought around 10,000 fans to the game that never knew the sport existed before and having their feet under the top table can only help generate bigger promotion in the city and a great platform to build from. I've seen people bemoan lack of Canadian players but it takes time to develop young players. There's many clubs in SL who can't even generate decent young players to come through here with 100 years of heritage.

People are fearful because it's the small clubs that are being threatened and rightly so. They've had it cush for too long. This is why Cas need to be forward-thinking, outward-looking and sort out their promotion and attraction to fans and deliver on the field. If we don't want to be replaced then we have to lead, not expect it to be given to us.
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Re: Toronto

Post by Flat Capper » 07 Oct 2019, 13:53

HuddsTigers wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 12:53...People are fearful because it's the small clubs that are being threatened and rightly so. They've had it cush for too long. This is why Cas need to be forward-thinking, outward-looking and sort out their promotion and attraction to fans and deliver on the field. If we don't want to be replaced then we have to lead, not expect it to be given to us.
Whilst I don't disagree with your principals in theory, the scale of the problem is a simple as this:-

Toronto - population 6 million+
Castleford - population 45k(ish)

However successful we may be, the fact remains that we will never attract more than 12-15k at best and that does not compete with the potential for 3 or 4 times that. From that, the powers that be have to decide what they want for the game and if it's a world product, Cas Tigers will become the equivalent of a non-league football team no matter how the club promotes itself.

Alternatively, the RFL could see the game as a more successful brand than it currently is but embracing its heritage whilst expanding to places like Coventry. Offering the right level of support for development clubs over here, targeting the Midlands and the South-West. Looking to establish clubs with a potential 20k fan base that doesn't take it beyond the potential level of the heart lands.
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Re: Toronto

Post by St Albans tiger » 07 Oct 2019, 14:01

What is this nonsense about Toronto getting 10,000 plus for the game against Fev - the official capacity of the ground is only 9,600 and we all could see that the ends of the terrace were empty.

Don't get me wrong it was a good turnout - but you can do that at Cas if you give free tickets and subsidized beer

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Re: Toronto

Post by nottinghamtiger » 07 Oct 2019, 14:51

They deserve a shot at SL because they’ve earned it on the field.
As long as they are willing to play by the same rules as everyone else (in terms of the overseas quota, salary cap and fixture structure) that’s fine by me.
On the attendance - let’s see how many people keep going when they are getting beaten on a weekly basis. It’s easy to get high attendances when you’re winning every game and everything is hunky dory. They might sustain their crowds, but I have my doubts.
Chances are they will be going straight back down. Then we’ll really see how strong their supporter base is.

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Re: Toronto

Post by mdean » 07 Oct 2019, 15:05

I am not convinced they will be straight back, their set-up seems to be of sufficient quality to firstly attract and sustain a decent roster.
The potential* in Toronto and Catalan is greater than most of the UK based clubs, but it is only potential.
*as in there are fewer competing clubs and it can grow more broadly.

A couple of clubs in Canada and France might make a more viable proposition, because then you have an emotional rivalry.

I said on a BBC comment section, which makes some of the threads on here look like University Challenge, I am exiled form the motherland these days; would I have made plans to watch Fev away, no. will I make plans to watch Toronto away - yes.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Derbyshiretiger » 07 Oct 2019, 15:13

I don't think they will be demoted . They'll want Toulouse up next year and then bring back liscensing and a 14 team competition

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Re: Toronto

Post by jackknife » 07 Oct 2019, 18:44

Toulouse next year then Ottawa in a few years
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Re: Toronto

Post by derbystiger » 07 Oct 2019, 19:06

No ones gonna convince me it’s a good thing. Admitting a team 8000 miles away is madness, an absolute joke. I’m all for expanding the game but the RFL’s job should be to expand it in our own country. As for football and rugby union travelling, yes they do - in separate competitions, they have a domestic league aswell. Let Canada/North America have their own league and then play a ‘champions league’ style separately and I’d have no issue. Bringing them into our league is a joke. Who’s gonna give me odds on this being the start of RFL merger talks and wanting ‘Calder’ again??!

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Re: Toronto

Post by Matt » 08 Oct 2019, 00:07

Problem is you know the RFL will want to continue expanding. What happens in 5 or 10 years when there's a club playing from New York, Barcelona or some other countries. In the eyes of the RFL it's perfect marketing and you can bet they'll push to get them in to SL. Then you have to start questioning which clubs make way in order for it to happen.

Does SL become an international league with the less desirable teams playing their trade in the lower leagues with limited to no coverage?

I wouldn't mind if the RFL helped other countries build a platform as it would significantly bolster the international stage and players coming through which in turn would spark more interest and marketing opportunities.

For now though we should be investing in making the game more appealing at home, there's a top quality product on offer but years of failing by the RFL have sent the sport backwards. Invest and promote locally first and once we have a strong structure in place and at the minimum 2 leagues playing full time rugby then take it further afield.
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Re: Toronto

Post by derbystiger » 08 Oct 2019, 00:21

Matt wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 00:07
For now though we should be investing in making the game more appealing at home, there's a top quality product on offer but years of failing by the RFL have sent the sport backwards. Invest and promote locally first and once we have a strong structure in place and at the minimum 2 leagues playing full time rugby then take it further afield.
100% agreed. The RFL are using this Toronto media circus to attempt to cover up their years of failings and people are falling for it.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Derbyshiretiger » 08 Oct 2019, 08:56

derbystiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 19:06 No ones gonna convince me it’s a good thing. Admitting a team 8000 miles away is madness, an absolute joke. I’m all for expanding the game but the RFL’s job should be to expand it in our own country. As for football and rugby union travelling, yes they do - in separate competitions, they have a domestic league aswell. Let Canada/North America have their own league and then play a ‘champions league’ style separately and I’d have no issue. Bringing them into our league is a joke. Who’s gonna give me odds on this being the start of RFL merger talks and wanting ‘Calder’ again??!
Bang on. I said it from the start. Let them set up there own league then play a mini world tournament every year or 2 . Whatever. RFL a joke. Been a cas fan 45 year but I'm very quickly starting to lose interest at the way it's being run. Laughing stock.

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Re: Toronto

Post by jackknife » 08 Oct 2019, 08:59

derbystiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 19:06 No ones gonna convince me it’s a good thing. Admitting a team 8000 miles away is madness, an absolute joke. I’m all for expanding the game but the RFL’s job should be to expand it in our own country. As for football and rugby union travelling, yes they do - in separate competitions, they have a domestic league aswell. Let Canada/North America have their own league and then play a ‘champions league’ style separately and I’d have no issue. Bringing them into our league is a joke. Who’s gonna give me odds on this being the start of RFL merger talks and wanting ‘Calder’ again??!
Says 3500 miles away Google but i agree
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Re: Toronto

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 08 Oct 2019, 09:31

There must be a Castleford in Aus
I Googled the other day Sydney to Cas and Sydney Toronto and the mileage was only 600 miles different!

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Re: Toronto

Post by braytontiger » 08 Oct 2019, 09:51

All those that believe a world expansion is a good thing I’d say you are like turkey’s voting for Christmas.

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Re: Toronto

Post by mart0042 » 08 Oct 2019, 10:01

I think we need to try a few things and see what Elstone can do. He's the man charged with getting us the sky deal and taking the game at the elite level forward.

14 teams and no loop fixtures, an increased sky deal and with North American deal like espn.

Our crowd is probably limited at 12k even if we are the best in the sport, but we know that. Even though it's over a quarter of the Cas population and amazing, it wouldn't be enough if we want the sort to grow big. The thing is that's higher than so many others could be.

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Re: Toronto

Post by tigerfeat » 08 Oct 2019, 10:08

think ive said before no doubt in my mind you will end up with a super league of big city clubs and on any given Sunday you will see London playing Barcelona in front of 1500 speccies and on same afternoon Bradford will be playing cas in another comp in front of 15000
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Re: Toronto

Post by mart0042 » 08 Oct 2019, 10:14

tigerfeat wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:08 think ive said before no doubt in my mind you will end up with a super league of big city clubs and on any given Sunday you will see London playing Barcelona in front of 1500 speccies and on same afternoon Bradford will be playing cas in another comp in front of 15000
Maybe, but I'd still be watching Cas.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Scoopage » 08 Oct 2019, 10:16

Will they have to run a A team like rest of superleague?if so who is going to fund the travel for that?

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Re: Toronto

Post by mart0042 » 08 Oct 2019, 11:26

Scoopage wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:16 Will they have to run a A team like rest of superleague?if so who is going to fund the travel for that?
No, like catalans, they won't.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 08 Oct 2019, 12:13

tigerfeat wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:08 think ive said before no doubt in my mind you will end up with a super league of big city clubs and on any given Sunday you will see London playing Barcelona in front of 1500 speccies and on same afternoon Bradford will be playing cas in another comp in front of 15000
Genuinely can’t see it happening. The RFL have now failed at the top level in Paris, Cardiff, Nottingham, London, Kent, Wrexham, Gateshead, Sheffield , Bradford etc. etc.
Come up with a viable London team and I might just start to believe that they could bring another City team in as well.
Not sure what the definition of a city is in their eyes though, McDermott seems to think that the City of Salford is a ‘small northern town’

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