2020 Squad

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Flat Capper
Alan Hardisty
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Flat Capper » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:28 pm

As with every aspect in life, contract negotiation is a skill that some are better at than others but there are many other factors to take into consideration.

Primarily, you do not want to be recruiting 10+ players every season as this will erode any chance of developing a squad that can play together effectively, have understanding of each other and build squad morale. It is inevitable some player will move on and some of that has to be the choice of the Club.

Every year each player should be assessed and their use to the team thoroughly examined. During this process you may well decide that someone like Shenton is worthy of another contract but be cautious of how long you believe the new contract should be. The player and his agent turn around and say far enough, I've got a better offer from so and so and therefore I'm off. That's another one gone that needs replacing and possibly enticing away from another Club.

Apply that across the board and you do end up losing a sizable proportion of the squad and the moaning fans so on social media screaming about the Club doing nothing to retain players, no ambition, and so on.

I can only assume Powell saw enough value in the players mentioned to warrant the contracts they were offered and we have to judge the Club on its success or failures as a result.
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smarty_tiger
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by smarty_tiger » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:34 pm

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:11 pm
HuddsTigers wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:48 pm
Shenton's contract ends at the end of 2021 so he'll be 35, not 36. The problem that we have is that we don't know the detail of what his (or anyone's) salary will be for the final years, or indeed what terms if it is based on (e.g. it could be that it's more of an off-field role in 2021 and a squad back-up player when needed.
35/36. It's equally as ridiculous.
I guess we don't know the value of any contract, let alone for each year. But it does't change the fact that that a player won't be playing for nothing, so therefore take up a proportion of the salary cap that could be used for recruitment.
The fact is we've given long-term contracts to players who either haven't proven themselves on the field (eg Clare), have barely played due to injury (eg Holmes), are too old to warrant the length of contract they have been given (Shenton) or who had recently signed a deal that just didn't need renewing (Foster).
And now seems an apt time to mention Jamie Ellis. A three year contract for a player who wasn't wanted by his current club, and who sent him on loan to a Championship team even though they only had one other half back, was another example of tying our hands. I was willing to go with the club signing him, but not for three years! You won't find another example of a Super League club giving an unwanted Championship player a three-year contract.
Great posts notts and a perfect example of showing clear incompetencies of our club. It is time the mentality of our recruitment and retention changes.

Not only does it handicap future recruitment, giving such long deals to ageing or lower league squad players, but it is sending the wrong message to both players and agents.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by nottinghamtiger » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Flat Capper wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:28 pm
The player and his agent turn around and say far enough, I've got a better offer from so and so and therefore I'm off. That's another one gone that needs replacing and possibly enticing away from another Club.
I think you've hit the nail on the head of why we are perceived as a soft touch in terms of contracts.
There are times the club needs to be telling players to accept what is offered or take their chances of getting a better deal elsewhere.
I just can't believe that other clubs would offer a Championship half-back a three-year deal, or a player who has only played 14 games in two years a three-year deal or offer a multi-year contract to a player who will be 35 by the end of it.
And that doesn't explain renewing Foster's deal in 2018 when he had only signed one in 2017 that didn't end until 2019.
I get the feeling we are easily "played" by the players' agents. It's about time we called their bluff, as I very much doubt they have a much better offer on the table.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Mysterio » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:10 pm

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:37 am
tigerfeat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:17 am
I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
Fully support this.

I find it in-cred-ible that such incompetence can be created within an organisation that worked so hard to gain momentum in the first place.

MY GOD, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE RESTED ON OUR LAURELS FOLLOWING GOOD SEASONS ONLY TO SINK THROUGH INACTIVITY THE YEARS FOLLOWING? It’s criminal almost.

I’m very disappointed and disillusioned with the club, Daryl included for the first time ever. I love the bloke sincerely but his choices / recruitment and decisions the past 2 years has been found wanting in areas.

I thought we had a cute forward thinking BOD now too; perhaps the one(s) with most clout are the absolutely worst ones to yield it....?

I’m not hopeful for next season. Sorry. I see a battle in the bottom 5 or 6 with us squarely in it.
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heritage1926
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by heritage1926 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:12 pm

What worries me the most out of anything is injuries. Surely we can't go a 3rd year in a row having star players sat out for months, if not a season at a time. Something has to be done about the niggles players keep picking up, especially the same ones.

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Flat Capper
Alan Hardisty
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Flat Capper » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:08 pm

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:09 pm
Flat Capper wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:28 pm
The player and his agent turn around and say far enough, I've got a better offer from so and so and therefore I'm off. That's another one gone that needs replacing and possibly enticing away from another Club.
I think you've hit the nail on the head of why we are perceived as a soft touch in terms of contracts.
There are times the club needs to be telling players to accept what is offered or take their chances of getting a better deal elsewhere.
I just can't believe that other clubs would offer a Championship half-back a three-year deal, or a player who has only played 14 games in two years a three-year deal or offer a multi-year contract to a player who will be 35 by the end of it.
And that doesn't explain renewing Foster's deal in 2018 when he had only signed one in 2017 that didn't end until 2019.
I get the feeling we are easily "played" by the players' agents. It's about time we called their bluff, as I very much doubt they have a much better offer on the table.
I'm sure I don't need to remind you who has just left?

I'm not saying I support the deals that have been done but the one like Foster's is not unsuual. Someone like Trueman got his contract extended and improved way in advance of of the end of the previous one. Wesbster went because he was only offered a one year deal and appears to have played quite well this year, leaving a gap we have yet to successfully fill (cannot wntice new players because we don't offer what they want).

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HuddsTigers
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:49 pm

tigerfeat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:01 pm
the fact hes Powells agent as well may have a bearing on things it may not...but Wells should be taking no crap off him the bloke would shaft the club without thinking about it if it suited him
He was very complimentary of Jon Wells' negotiating skills last night on the Full Eighty Minutes, talking about how argumentative/tough he is, even suggesting that he would be good to front up a Players' Union to challenge decisions made by SL/the RFL.

Just some more meat to the bones that fans don't always hear or see.
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nottinghamtiger
Luke Gale
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by nottinghamtiger » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:59 pm

The other consideration is how the teams around us have strengthened.
Wigan have signed Hastings and Burgess. That improves their team. Plus they’ve just brought in Bevan French.
Warrington have signed Widdop. That improves their starting 17 in a key position.
Hull FC have signed the best backrower in SL this year in Josh Jones. Plus Fonua, Ma’u, Satae and Sao.
We’ve signed Feki, Olpherts, Griffin and Hepi.
The game isn’t played on paper and there’s no guarantee that the players other clubs have signed will be successful. But we are losing even more ground, not making it up.

betts21
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by betts21 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:27 pm

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:59 pm
The other consideration is how the teams around us have strengthened.
Wigan have signed Hastings and Burgess. That improves their team. Plus they’ve just brought in Bevan French.
Warrington have signed Widdop. That improves their starting 17 in a key position.
Hull FC have signed the best backrower in SL this year in Josh Jones. Plus Fonua, Ma’u, Satae and Sao.
We’ve signed Feki, Olpherts, Griffin and Hepi.
The game isn’t played on paper and there’s no guarantee that the players other clubs have signed will be successful. But we are losing even more ground, not making it up.
Que the Wells statement again saying these teams needed to strengthen however we don't again lol

tigerfeat
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:29 pm

Griffin is a workhorse id like to see how many tackles he's made in this first half
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:49 pm

Thought Griffin was outstanding like rest of his team ran himself to a standstill looking forward to him in black and orange next season
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
Vince Lombardi

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by RonnieGibbs'forearm » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:08 am

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:59 pm
The other consideration is how the teams around us have strengthened.
Wigan have signed Hastings and Burgess. That improves their team. Plus they’ve just brought in Bevan French.
Warrington have signed Widdop. That improves their starting 17 in a key position.
Hull FC have signed the best backrower in SL this year in Josh Jones. Plus Fonua, Ma’u, Satae and Sao.
We’ve signed Feki, Olpherts, Griffin and Hepi.
The game isn’t played on paper and there’s no guarantee that the players other clubs have signed will be successful. But we are losing even more ground, not making it up.
You are absolutely right so far
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gateman
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by gateman » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:24 am

it amazes me how the so called top teams keep under the salary cap that is if there is one

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Danny Orr
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by gateman » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:24 am

it amazes me how the so called top teams keep under the salary cap that is if there is one

lidds
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by lidds » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:40 am

nottinghamtiger wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:09 pm
Flat Capper wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:28 pm
The player and his agent turn around and say far enough, I've got a better offer from so and so and therefore I'm off. That's another one gone that needs replacing and possibly enticing away from another Club.
I think you've hit the nail on the head of why we are perceived as a soft touch in terms of contracts.
There are times the club needs to be telling players to accept what is offered or take their chances of getting a better deal elsewhere.
I just can't believe that other clubs would offer a Championship half-back a three-year deal, or a player who has only played 14 games in two years a three-year deal or offer a multi-year contract to a player who will be 35 by the end of it.
And that doesn't explain renewing Foster's deal in 2018 when he had only signed one in 2017 that didn't end until 2019.
I get the feeling we are easily "played" by the players' agents. It's about time we called their bluff, as I very much doubt they have a much better offer on the table.
Spot on, unfortunately you will still get fans moaning. Just look at Mitch Clark. There were so many people kicking off that we were letting a 10 minute prop leave for free.

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