2020 Squad

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Mysterio
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Mysterio » 03 Oct 2019, 10:39

Let’s talk sense wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 21:19 Tiger feet speaking honestly and truthfully now. The club have some exceptional youth products at this moment in time. I am going to be totally honest this amounts to about 4-6 true prospects across the current board. My question is this “Who is going to provide a cautious and supportive platform for these guys to perform and come through”?
Secondly Supporter’s also have a massive part to play! They tend to demand fantastic top range signings immediately. Example to use Shenny as a test case. Can yo imagine the uproar if he did not come back and was replaced by an home grown cheaper club trained salary capped player?if we all want to progress we All have to get on board.
If the lad in question was clearly one with superb potential we’d be more than onboard, hence a Westerman or a Trueman, or Xerri Evans!!
It’s all about communication and telling the fans our plans,
If we do have 4-6 true potentially world class prospects which I doubt, we ought to be letting our fans know about these kids and gently spotlighting them to encourage further development whilst exposing them to first team type lives.
Audacter Et Sincere

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by gateman » 03 Oct 2019, 21:01

the signings so far, Rankin and Griffin i am happy with them two, Olpherts and Hepi i am too sure on Olpherts unable to nail a starting place likewise Hepi only being used in short bursts but DP is a far better judge than me so we will have to wait and see

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Let’s talk sense » 03 Oct 2019, 21:10

Hi Mysterio - just for clarity purposes. At no point did I describe the youth products as being ‘World Class’.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by chief193 » 04 Oct 2019, 08:50

The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by braytontiger » 04 Oct 2019, 08:55

chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.
Correct add in that Stuart raper also failed to see the importance of youth development. Certainly is history repeating it’s self, I’m not sure it will end in relegation this time but it could. With Toronto coming in and both Leeds and HKR. Getting their act together somebody as to go and the margins are that close it really could be anyone who takes their eye off the ball or they become complacent.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » 04 Oct 2019, 09:17

I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by chief193 » 04 Oct 2019, 09:23

braytontiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:55
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.
Correct add in that Stuart raper also failed to see the importance of youth development. Certainly is history repeating it’s self, I’m not sure it will end in relegation this time but it could. With Toronto coming in and both Leeds and HKR. Getting their act together somebody as to go and the margins are that close it really could be anyone who takes their eye off the ball or they become complacent.
I agree I don’t really see us being relegated but a few games either way this year and we would have been in the mix down there. Ifs and buts I know as a few games the other way and we could have been second.
The general quality of SL this year has been poor, with the exception of STs every team has had a really bad patch where they looked awful, we just need to be very wary that everyone else steps on and we don’t

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by nottinghamtiger » 04 Oct 2019, 09:37

tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 04 Oct 2019, 10:41

chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured
Who was the half? Remember Mitch Healey around that time but didn’t he come in and play alongside Danny for a while and stayed after he left. I thought he was OK, so who was the other one, Sheridan?

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by classycas57 » 04 Oct 2019, 10:46

nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
Couldn't agree more notts

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by duke street 10 » 04 Oct 2019, 10:56

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 10:41
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured
Who was the half? Remember Mitch Healey around that time but didn’t he come in and play alongside Danny for a while and stayed after he left. I thought he was OK, so who was the other one, Sheridan?
I remember Sheridan didn't play much around that time. There was Sean Rudder for a short spell,we tried Andy Kain for a while as well.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by duke street 10 » 04 Oct 2019, 10:59

classycas57 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 10:46
nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
Couldn't agree more notts
On top of the good post by Notts, we have question marks over the overseas quota, Will Jesse come back?, will Blair improve?, will Millington & Moors make it through 2020?, is Pete M worth a quota place?

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by chief193 » 04 Oct 2019, 11:05

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 10:41
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured
Who was the half? Remember Mitch Healey around that time but didn’t he come in and play alongside Danny for a while and stayed after he left. I thought he was OK, so who was the other one, Sheridan?
It was Sheridan mate, busted his shoulder at Hull in the cup and never player again for us

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by chief193 » 04 Oct 2019, 11:06

nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
Spot on that mate 👍

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by braytontiger » 04 Oct 2019, 11:30

nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
You can only assume that the agent Craig Harrison could sell ice to the eskimos or we are unbelievably gullible or both.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by nottinghamtiger » 04 Oct 2019, 11:51

braytontiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 11:30
nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
You can only assume that the agent Craig Harrison could sell ice to the eskimos or we are unbelievably gullible or both.
Well it doesn't happen at other clubs, so I'm going with 'unbelievably gullible'.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 04 Oct 2019, 12:48

Shenton's contract ends at the end of 2021 so he'll be 35, not 36. The problem that we have is that we don't know the detail of what his (or anyone's) salary will be for the final years, or indeed what terms if it is based on (e.g. it could be that it's more of an off-field role in 2021 and a squad back-up player when needed).

When you look at others it does look slightly bizarre. The more I hear/see of Craig Harrison and the general influence he has in the game, I do wonder how much of an effect he has in terms of making the club panic thinking they're going to lose their best players. I wonder if we're seen as a stepping stone club by him for his players.

Let's not forget, he himself said in the summer that Gale would be at Cas next season. There's no doubting he's a good agent and advocate of the game. But I think we need to grow some spine and start standing up to him a bit.
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » 04 Oct 2019, 13:01

the fact hes Powells agent as well may have a bearing on things it may not...but Wells should be taking no crap off him the bloke would shaft the club without thinking about it if it suited him
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by nottinghamtiger » 04 Oct 2019, 13:11

HuddsTigers wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 12:48 Shenton's contract ends at the end of 2021 so he'll be 35, not 36. The problem that we have is that we don't know the detail of what his (or anyone's) salary will be for the final years, or indeed what terms if it is based on (e.g. it could be that it's more of an off-field role in 2021 and a squad back-up player when needed.
35/36. It's equally as ridiculous.
I guess we don't know the value of any contract, let alone for each year. But it does't change the fact that that a player won't be playing for nothing, so therefore take up a proportion of the salary cap that could be used for recruitment.
The fact is we've given long-term contracts to players who either haven't proven themselves on the field (eg Clare), have barely played due to injury (eg Holmes), are too old to warrant the length of contract they have been given (Shenton) or who had recently signed a deal that just didn't need renewing (Foster).
And now seems an apt time to mention Jamie Ellis. A three year contract for a player who wasn't wanted by his current club, and who sent him on loan to a Championship team even though they only had one other half back, was another example of tying our hands. I was willing to go with the club signing him, but not for three years! You won't find another example of a Super League club giving an unwanted Championship player a three-year contract.

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Re: 2020 Squad

Post by jackknife » 04 Oct 2019, 13:25

Rankin
Feki
Blair
Shenton / Mata’utia
Eden
Trueman
Richardson
Watts
Mcshane
Smith
Holmes
McMeeken
Massey

Milner
Millington
Moors
Jsl

That would be my strongest 17 but i would change players regularly to keep everyone fresh
CLASSY CAS FOREVER

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