Toronto

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lurcher
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Re: Toronto

Post by lurcher » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:37 pm

the fixture programming will be interesting early season as wigan usually are allowed to play most of their early games away as the football team they rent from take first preference.
a lot has been made in recent seasons of how wigan come with a late run but that is because their late fixtures are heavily concentrated at home to make up for all their early season away games. stinks
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mart0042
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Re: Toronto

Post by mart0042 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:52 am

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water or Cas because Toronto have been promoted. Let's see what happens.

First thing we know is that the 11 remaining teams will get Torontos share of the sky money. So we are nearly 200k up.

Secondly, they are signing a couple of stars, with Sonny bill being one touted. Plus the mystery of playing them should put extra on the gates. Maybe not as many ss Fev would but you save money in the extra security.

Thirdly, we don't know how having Toronto in will effect the sky contact negotiations. I can only see it being positive.

Time will tell but I wouldn't stop watching Cas because another team got promoted. Hopefully I can find the money to go away to watch them.

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mart0042
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Re: Toronto

Post by mart0042 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:56 am

lurcher wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:37 pm
the fixture programming will be interesting early season as wigan usually are allowed to play most of their early games away as the football team they rent from take first preference.
a lot has been made in recent seasons of how wigan come with a late run but that is because their late fixtures are heavily concentrated at home to make up for all their early season away games. stinks
It does stink, Leeds get similar when the RU team play.

The fixture list should be drawn out randomly apart from maybe Easter. If you can't play then that's the teams fault. You should be penalised for not having your own ground but gain an advantage from it.

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Re: Toronto

Post by Flat Capper » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:25 pm

I'm trying to read between the lines on this as I believe the RFL have an obvious motive but less obvious method. If, as many seem to suggest, they won't travel, they won't/can't support their club on Thursdays or worse, the disingenuous Ralph Rimmer type bods that run the game will turn around and say fine, we don't want these small minded teams.

Perhaps we should embrace the challenge and tackle it head on, play the team off the park and make their owners see that it takes a little more to compete in SL than a few old lackies playing for a pension.
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HuddsTigers
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Re: Toronto

Post by HuddsTigers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:47 pm

derbystiger wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:53 pm
I’ll wait to see how the fixture list pans out now before renewing my season ticket. It’s an absolute joke that they should be allowed in. Carney summed it up perfectly ‘we now have a Canadian team in the European super league’. They can’t play at home for the first 2 months, they can sign who they like as they have no home grown players so the quota regs are a joke with them. They will be exempt last minute fixture changes, they’ll only play on weekends. Costs a fortune to travel there, on top of a Catalans trip. Ridiculous. I love Cas rugby league club but if this is the way the sport is going then I’ll find something else to do with my time. Going to watch Rangi at Doncaster sounds appealing at the moment.
They have the same quota as everyone else. They're allowed 7 overseas signings that are non-fed/quota. The rest are English or French that don't count on either quota. There's nothing stopping an English club having an entire side of French, Spanish, Italian or any other European country of players if they want.

No team plays a conventional home and away system so it's not really much of an issue if they play 4 H, 4 A, 4 H, 4 A (if that IS even the case), especially since others have already mentioned that existing clubs have blocks of games over the summer due to pitches being relayed for football.

They will probably play on Saturdays, yes, since it would allow better broadcasting for Sky Sports to televise their games over here. Teams could play them on a Thursday if they wanted but it would mean it being broadcast at 1am UK time, which wouldn't be great. Ultimately, as a sport we have to do the best for attendances AND TV. Nothing stopping them playing on Thursday nights when over here though.

As for a fortune to travel, that happens across all sports nowadays. Football fans travel for Champions League games, rugby union games are played cross-continental. People can pick and choose whether they go - one thing is certain, they certainly don't need to rely on away fans to fill their ground like British clubs bleat about. 10k fans actually turned out of their own accord for the Grand Final.
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Re: Toronto

Post by HuddsTigers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:53 pm

mart0042 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:52 am
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water or Cas because Toronto have been promoted. Let's see what happens.

First thing we know is that the 11 remaining teams will get Torontos share of the sky money. So we are nearly 200k up.

Secondly, they are signing a couple of stars, with Sonny bill being one touted. Plus the mystery of playing them should put extra on the gates. Maybe not as many ss Fev would but you save money in the extra security.

Thirdly, we don't know how having Toronto in will effect the sky contact negotiations. I can only see it being positive.

Time will tell but I wouldn't stop watching Cas because another team got promoted. Hopefully I can find the money to go away to watch them.
Bang on.

The sport is dying and playing in our little bubble is not going to help anyone invest or bring money into the game, which it desperately needs.

Toronto have, by and large, helped bring larger crowds to clubs they have played against with a lot having crowds above their average or even record crowds. They've got in media publications that rugby league could only dream of, as well as being promoted by other sporting brands in the city such as the Blue Jays.

They have also brought around 10,000 fans to the game that never knew the sport existed before and having their feet under the top table can only help generate bigger promotion in the city and a great platform to build from. I've seen people bemoan lack of Canadian players but it takes time to develop young players. There's many clubs in SL who can't even generate decent young players to come through here with 100 years of heritage.

People are fearful because it's the small clubs that are being threatened and rightly so. They've had it cush for too long. This is why Cas need to be forward-thinking, outward-looking and sort out their promotion and attraction to fans and deliver on the field. If we don't want to be replaced then we have to lead, not expect it to be given to us.
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Re: Toronto

Post by Flat Capper » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:53 pm

HuddsTigers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:53 pm
...People are fearful because it's the small clubs that are being threatened and rightly so. They've had it cush for too long. This is why Cas need to be forward-thinking, outward-looking and sort out their promotion and attraction to fans and deliver on the field. If we don't want to be replaced then we have to lead, not expect it to be given to us.
Whilst I don't disagree with your principals in theory, the scale of the problem is a simple as this:-

Toronto - population 6 million+
Castleford - population 45k(ish)

However successful we may be, the fact remains that we will never attract more than 12-15k at best and that does not compete with the potential for 3 or 4 times that. From that, the powers that be have to decide what they want for the game and if it's a world product, Cas Tigers will become the equivalent of a non-league football team no matter how the club promotes itself.

Alternatively, the RFL could see the game as a more successful brand than it currently is but embracing its heritage whilst expanding to places like Coventry. Offering the right level of support for development clubs over here, targeting the Midlands and the South-West. Looking to establish clubs with a potential 20k fan base that doesn't take it beyond the potential level of the heart lands.
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Re: Toronto

Post by St Albans tiger » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:01 pm

What is this nonsense about Toronto getting 10,000 plus for the game against Fev - the official capacity of the ground is only 9,600 and we all could see that the ends of the terrace were empty.

Don't get me wrong it was a good turnout - but you can do that at Cas if you give free tickets and subsidized beer

nottinghamtiger
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Re: Toronto

Post by nottinghamtiger » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:51 pm

They deserve a shot at SL because they’ve earned it on the field.
As long as they are willing to play by the same rules as everyone else (in terms of the overseas quota, salary cap and fixture structure) that’s fine by me.
On the attendance - let’s see how many people keep going when they are getting beaten on a weekly basis. It’s easy to get high attendances when you’re winning every game and everything is hunky dory. They might sustain their crowds, but I have my doubts.
Chances are they will be going straight back down. Then we’ll really see how strong their supporter base is.

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Re: Toronto

Post by mdean » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:05 pm

I am not convinced they will be straight back, their set-up seems to be of sufficient quality to firstly attract and sustain a decent roster.
The potential* in Toronto and Catalan is greater than most of the UK based clubs, but it is only potential.
*as in there are fewer competing clubs and it can grow more broadly.

A couple of clubs in Canada and France might make a more viable proposition, because then you have an emotional rivalry.

I said on a BBC comment section, which makes some of the threads on here look like University Challenge, I am exiled form the motherland these days; would I have made plans to watch Fev away, no. will I make plans to watch Toronto away - yes.

Derbyshiretiger
Sean Rudder
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Re: Toronto

Post by Derbyshiretiger » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:13 pm

I don't think they will be demoted . They'll want Toulouse up next year and then bring back liscensing and a 14 team competition

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Re: Toronto

Post by jackknife » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Toulouse next year then Ottawa in a few years
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derbystiger
Danny Orr
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Re: Toronto

Post by derbystiger » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:06 pm

No ones gonna convince me it’s a good thing. Admitting a team 8000 miles away is madness, an absolute joke. I’m all for expanding the game but the RFL’s job should be to expand it in our own country. As for football and rugby union travelling, yes they do - in separate competitions, they have a domestic league aswell. Let Canada/North America have their own league and then play a ‘champions league’ style separately and I’d have no issue. Bringing them into our league is a joke. Who’s gonna give me odds on this being the start of RFL merger talks and wanting ‘Calder’ again??!

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Re: Toronto

Post by Matt » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:07 am

Problem is you know the RFL will want to continue expanding. What happens in 5 or 10 years when there's a club playing from New York, Barcelona or some other countries. In the eyes of the RFL it's perfect marketing and you can bet they'll push to get them in to SL. Then you have to start questioning which clubs make way in order for it to happen.

Does SL become an international league with the less desirable teams playing their trade in the lower leagues with limited to no coverage?

I wouldn't mind if the RFL helped other countries build a platform as it would significantly bolster the international stage and players coming through which in turn would spark more interest and marketing opportunities.

For now though we should be investing in making the game more appealing at home, there's a top quality product on offer but years of failing by the RFL have sent the sport backwards. Invest and promote locally first and once we have a strong structure in place and at the minimum 2 leagues playing full time rugby then take it further afield.
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Re: Toronto

Post by derbystiger » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:21 am

Matt wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:07 am

For now though we should be investing in making the game more appealing at home, there's a top quality product on offer but years of failing by the RFL have sent the sport backwards. Invest and promote locally first and once we have a strong structure in place and at the minimum 2 leagues playing full time rugby then take it further afield.
100% agreed. The RFL are using this Toronto media circus to attempt to cover up their years of failings and people are falling for it.

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