How much to buy the club......

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Lofthouse Tiger
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How much to buy the club......

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 15:46

In these times of financial shortfall and investment how much would anyone think it would realistically cost to buy the club? A consortium or an individual I dont suppose it would matter if the finances were there.

What would need to be taken in to account when looking at buying the club?

Loans to be paid back - would this be all outstanding loans regardless of who it is to? I would think so.

Outstanding debt - If there are any debts, however large/small, would these have to be paid I full? I would think so.

Shares - Would this be case of buying out the major share holder or all shareholders? How much would said shares cost? How much are the shares that aren’t with IF be worth? If the major shareholder was bought out would be/she want £40 a share? Would the ones given to them be included or require payment? Where would that leave the rest of the shareholders as it has been proven that you don’t need all the shares to run the club.

New signings - What with salary cap how much would any investment need to be in this are to spend the maximum? It has been said we are there already.

Back room staff - This is an are that many feel needs big improvements. How much would this cost? This would include everyone employed by the club bar coach and players

Ground - Probably the most investment required although this would depend on the state of the deal with whoever is supposed to be building the so called new ground. If it was decided that any new owners would like to redevelop WR and not move then would this be something that could be done and the move cancelled?

To me that would require a serious amount of money but if someone did have it then what price to buy the club taking in to account all the above and anything else that would need to be added.

Where would you start to out a figure on this? £3m, £4m, £5m?

I know this is only speculating and we don’t know what we need to know to be accurate. So just for a bit of fun/debate what do you think?

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Mysterio » 21 Nov 2020, 15:51

Fulton would want double
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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Piquad1 » 21 Nov 2020, 15:56

Give me the euro lottery I'll show you how to run a club. Be happy days for all Cas fans before I meet the grim reaper. Oh what a party we'd all have. If only.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Tigerwood posse » 21 Nov 2020, 16:14

I think you would need to look at a few different aspects of what you are buying, forget what is built in terms of the ground, i think it boils down to the land, lets say that's currently worth £3million (that may or may not be right in current market), then, look at the debt and what is owed to Fulton, so that £2million, i presume his debt is currently turned into shares, then you have the other share holders, i guess that doesn't amount to that much, then you have the sky money, £2 million a year going forward, there must be a value to that and that would have to be covered in the selling price, then you have player values, now obviously that doesn't apply to all players, but some of them are worth money (we saw that with Daryl Clark), so players like, Trueman, McShane, Watts and maybe O'Neill might be worth a fee if under contract, possibly a few more, then you have the value of the tigers brand, that has to be surely in the mix, there are probably other things that factor in, none sky turnover etc, season tickets etc, i reckon with all this added up, you wold be looking at £8-£9million, but i know there are some real numbers guys on here that will rip all my post to shreds, I'm not an accountant, I will get the popcorn out!!

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Hepworth7 » 21 Nov 2020, 16:25

Tigerwood posse wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 16:14 I think you would need to look at a few different aspects of what you are buying, forget what is built in terms of the ground, i think it boils down to the land, lets say that's currently worth £3million (that may or may not be right in current market), then, look at the debt and what is owed to Fulton, so that £2million, i presume his debt is currently turned into shares, then you have the other share holders, i guess that doesn't amount to that much, then you have the sky money, £2 million a year going forward, there must be a value to that and that would have to be covered in the selling price, then you have player values, now obviously that doesn't apply to all players, but some of them are worth money (we saw that with Daryl Clark), so players like, Trueman, McShane, Watts and maybe O'Neill might be worth a fee if under contract, possibly a few more, then you have the value of the tigers brand, that has to be surely in the mix, there are probably other things that factor in, none sky turnover etc, season tickets etc, i reckon with all this added up, you wold be looking at £8-£9million, but i know there are some real numbers guys on here that will rip all my post to shreds, I'm not an accountant, I will get the popcorn out!!
To be fair don't think you're far off with that valuation,in the current climate a Rugby club with debts wouldn't be the safest proposition, the big difference would be if Fulton was "looking" to sell or "needing" to sell.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 16:49

Some things in there I didn’t think of but find it a bit odd that someone selling a club would want a percentage of Sky money, what a player may be worth and all the money from season tickets. As for the brand how do you put a value on that?

I would presume then that because the ground is a toilet then that would also be used in any bargaining and would surely bring the price down?

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by HuddsTigers » 21 Nov 2020, 16:52

To be honest, I think IF would sell if the club was in capable financial hands with credible wealth to support the club, as long as the loans were repaid. It is guaranteed money.

If someone was trying to buy his shares only but not clear the loan, that is when it gets dicey because the loan needs servicing.

So I'd probably say as low as £3-4m could be enough to buy the club. Shares aren't worth all that much for a loss making club and with no loan to service, any more losses will mean eating into proposed money made on value of selling land, as well as being on top of the remaining debts owed, as well as costs of finding a new ground etc.

Better for IF to get out with the money owed to him and cut his losses on shares IMO.
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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by HuddsTigers » 21 Nov 2020, 16:55

You see it all the time in business. Investors cut their losses if they get their money back. Give IF his money and debts, probably a few hundred thousand for his shares.

If Sky deal goes down or doesn't get renewed the club could be screwed at any point and that money goes pop up. Cut and run.
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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by tigerfeat » 21 Nov 2020, 16:59

At some point Cas arnt going to be in super league some decision will come down you can't stay in SL with the ground we have how much would the club be worth at that point in the championship
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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 17:11

HuddsTigers wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 16:52 To be honest, I think IF would sell if the club was in capable financial hands with credible wealth to support the club, as long as the loans were repaid. It is guaranteed money.

If someone was trying to buy his shares only but not clear the loan, that is when it gets dicey because the loan needs servicing.

So I'd probably say as low as £3-4m could be enough to buy the club. Shares aren't worth all that much for a loss making club and with no loan to service, any more losses will mean eating into proposed money made on value of selling land, as well as being on top of the remaining debts owed, as well as costs of finding a new ground etc.

Better for IF to get out with the money owed to him and cut his losses on shares IMO.
This is the kind of thing I was thinking Hudds and the figures you quote are about what I was thinking. I doubt anyone would be prepared to pay £8/9 million and then sort the ground out as well. To build a new stadium would be maybe £12/13 million or maybe a bit more.

As Tigerfeat says I think the price would be a lot less than £3 million as the club would be almost worthless.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by betts21 » 21 Nov 2020, 17:14

Just out of interest if cas went to the wall how would that effect Ian Fulton what would he expect to get back or theoretically is his debt covered by the grounds value do we think

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 17:20

If the club went to the wall then the ground Kyle probably be sold to payoff any debts and loans. I doubt the club would get the current value either as IF would be desperate to get his money back as would anyone in that scenario.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by St Albans tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 17:58

If the club were to go bust. The running of the company would go into the hands of an administrator or liquidator.

The aim if the administrator is to run the club until a new owner can be found. If that can't happen the administrator will look to obtain as much as it can for the assets it's can sell.

Players and land will be sold and then creditors will be given a proportion of the funds raised... But I think If has a secured loan on the land so he will get first dibs on it to repay his loan.

That will basically wipe out the club so would imagine the only thing left would be the image rights for the club logo etc which won't be worth a lot

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by St Albans tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 18:09

If the club were to go bust. The running of the company would go into the hands of an administrator or liquidator.

The aim if the administrator is to run the club until a new owner can be found. If that can't happen the administrator will look to obtain as much as it can for the assets it's can sell.

Players and land will be sold and then creditors will be given a proportion of the funds raised... But I think If has a secured loan on the land so he will get first dibs on it to repay his loan.

That will basically wipe out the club so would imagine the only thing left would be the image rights for the club logo etc which won't be worth a lot

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Tigerwood posse » 21 Nov 2020, 19:53

Lofthouse Tiger wrote: 21 Nov 2020, 16:49 Some things in there I didn’t think of but find it a bit odd that someone selling a club would want a percentage of Sky money, what a player may be worth and all the money from season tickets. As for the brand how do you put a value on that?

I would presume then that because the ground is a toilet then that would also be used in any bargaining and would surely bring the price down?
I didn't mean that the seller would want a share of the sky money, but it has to be factored in as future guaranteed turnover as do all the other things I mentioned, they have a value.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by flood light tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 20:36

I think that the shareholders would want in the region of £10 million plus
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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 20:59

I’m sure they would want that. What’s it worth though?

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by St Albans tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 23:30

Any one buying the club would not even need to consider buying any shares other than the IF shares because he is the majority shareholder and therefore would out vote the existing shareholders.

They can demand 40 pounds a share, or what they paid for them but its literally only what the Fulton family want, and perhaps the wright's.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 21 Nov 2020, 23:48

As it stands you would not need to buy the shares from anyone but IF as that would be sufficient to run he club as he is doing at the moment.

The rest of the shares are pretty much worthless so why would anyone want to pay over the odds for something they wouldnt need?

I can see why IF may say that the players and Sky money have a value but the ground in its state does not. The players and Sky money are not guaranteed as players lose value and the Sky deal could be much less or gone completely so how long would they be of value and how can you put a price on those? Not saying you are wrong, just asking the question.

I appreciate that if the club goes to the wall then it is out of the hands of the shareholders to sell it on but the people brought in to sell it aren’t too fussed to get a high price, just enough to pay loans and/or debts and nothing else.

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Re: How much to buy the club......

Post by Tigers1926 » 22 Nov 2020, 08:24

I reckon if someone turned up with the idea of turning the club around and sorting out the ground situation, IF would want out asap. I wish I could say it was me.

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