Wellsy?

[KB80]

Take Wells out of the equation and Gratton is in more control, do we want that? Tbf I also doubt anyone on this forum knows the full scope of Wells responsibilities. In terms of recruitment the area he is getting criticism for:
Does he identify signings or just try and make the deal happen? Does anyone know what proportion he gets over the line? Comparable to other clubs with similar budgets.

I spose the point I am making is does anyone in this forum have the info they would need to assess the job he is doing.

So if his role isn’t really clear, what exactly IS he contributing? What does he actually do?
And what does he bring that we didn’t have before his appointment? Because I can’t see any contribution whatsoever. All I see is decline.

Essentially it seems to me Gratton and Wells replaced Gills responsibilities and Wells was asked to take some strain off Powell.

I would argue the biggest decline isn't the calibre of players we have recruited (Watts, Evalds, Feki, Blair, Richardson to name a few) are high calibre signings.
With the exception of Hardaker and Robert's they are higher calibre than the players we were signing in 2016/17.

Is it Wells principaly responsible that some of these players haven't performed? (Not unless he identified them as signings alone, is over seeing their conditioning and coaching them)

How much say does Wells have in conditioning? That's an area of decline.

Looking at the accounts released commercially we look to.be in decline in that area.

I also think that since 2017 several clubs have chucked big sums of money at building much better squads then they had in 2017. Cas cant do that financially. Is that Wells fault?

I dont know if Wells is doing a decent job, but nor does anyone on this forum. But I'm not convinced this season and apparent decline can be laid at his door.

Evalds has yet to play for us. I have no idea how anyone can claim that Feki or Blair have been anything other than abject failures. Richardson has looked okay, but he’s nowhere near the level of a top SL half-back.
If we have been signing higher quality players than we were prior to 2017, I’m not sure how we were by far the best team that season and have now slipped to the lower-end of the league. The signings before 2017 (Dorn, Gale, McMeeken, Solomona, McShane, JSL, Eden, Hardaker etc) we’re far, far better than the vast majority we have made since 2017 (Ellis, Clare, Wardle, Lo, Green, Clark, Aston, Blair. Feki). What is the difference? Jon Wells.
His role is unclear, we have regressed since he has been involved and we’ve dropped from 1st (by 10 points) to 9th in Super League in the space of three seasons.

Not talking about how the signings have performed (is this down to Wells? His job is likely to be to sign them if the coach wants them). But the calibre of them, ie were they proven high level regurlar players before we signed them. From your list only Hardaker and possibly Wardle, who was pre Wells fall into that bracket. The example I used were all players who have played in big NRL or SL games at top sides. So at the time of signing would be considered high calibre signings.

Cas did a media piece on how they identify signings, etc a bit back. So applying this and using Feki as an example.

The coaches, player performance team and Wells identified Feki as a potential signing. They met, discussed him, reviewed videos of him and decided they wanted him. No doubt DP has the final say at this point. Wells was then tasked with signing him. The task is basically to convince a current, proven 29 year old NRL player with over 140 NRL appearances and a grand final winners medal to travel half way across the world to Cas. He did that.

[bane73]

Take Wells out of the equation and Gratton is in more control, do we want that? Tbf I also doubt anyone on this forum knows the full scope of Wells responsibilities. In terms of recruitment the area he is getting criticism for:
Does he identify signings or just try and make the deal happen? Does anyone know what proportion he gets over the line? Comparable to other clubs with similar budgets.

I spose the point I am making is does anyone in this forum have the info they would need to assess the job he is doing.

No they don't know a thing about the way the club is run they just listen to silly rumours, then, jump on the band wagon.

[daytona]

His job is not just signing and identifying players though is it? He’s juggling budgets, dealing with contracts and agents, sorting issues with players both private and to do with rugby I would have thought. All this allows Powell to concentrate all his time coaching, which is how it’s meant to be. I don’t know the ins and outs of Jon Wells job, and frankly it’s non of my business so how can you call for the removal of someone from his employment without knowing the details of what he does? Bit harsh and out of order this thread in my opinion.

[Shameless]

You can't say the squad is worse because we aren't dominating the league as we did in 2017.

There are many factors that led to that but by far the largest is that every other squad performed particularly poorly that year.

I enjoyed winning the League as much as anyone, and it's finally on the record books but the fact is that squad in 2020 (had it been a regular season) would not have rolled over Saints, Wigan, Warrington and Catalan like they did back then.

We are doing okay - we should all be hoping we can challenge for silverware but the expectation we should be is unfounded for a club with Castlefords resources.

[nottinghamtiger]

You can't say the squad is worse because we aren't dominating the league as we did in 2017.

There are many factors that led to that but by far the largest is that every other squad performed particularly poorly that year.

I enjoyed winning the League as much as anyone, and it's finally on the record books but the fact is that squad in 2020 (had it been a regular season) would not have rolled over Saints, Wigan, Warrington and Catalan like they did back then.

We are doing okay - we should all be hoping we can challenge for silverware but the expectation we should be is unfounded for a club with Castlefords resources.

It baffles me that anyone can look at our 2020 squad and think it is anywhere near the level of 2017.
On a player-by-player basis:
FB in 2017 - Zak Hardaker. Never replaced. We went into 2020 with Jordan Rankin.
Wingers in 2017 - Minikin and Eden, with Joel Monaghan playing when needed. Now we’ve got Eden, Olpherts and Clare. I don’t even know what Feki is like, because he hasn’t played.
Centres In 2017 - Webster and Shenton. Webster was never replaced, until we signed Blair who has been mostly awful. Shenton is three years older and it’s shown.
Halves in 2017 - Gale and Roberts. Trueman and Richardson have potential for sure, but ability-wise they aren’t at the same level.

I’m going to put the forwards together - only Watts is better than the players we had in 2017. If anyone thinks we have signed a better forward than we had in 2017 except him, I’m not sure who they are thinking about.

The decline is obvious and pronounced. Whatever way you measure the success of the team, we have gone backwards at an alarming rate. Personally, I think it set in when Wells said we didn’t need to improve, despite the clear signs that we did.

Unfortunately, this is history repeating itself.

Back on the topic of Wells - what has he brought to the club that we were missing before his appointment? I don’t see the added value he has given us.

[LeagueLeaders]

For me it isn't so much the quality being brought in its more how long it takes us to see a problem and fix it. We lost Hardaker and tried using Roberts, Eden, Mata'utia, and so on out of position. We needed halves and tried Mata'utia and Rankin. The list goes on. The point is all of these players are far better in their actual position and these positions have finally been fixed. The issue is how long is it going to take before we solve the other problems in our squad. We'll obviously stick with Shenton next year even tho he's a liability at this point.

[tigerfeat]

For me it isn't so much the quality being brought in its more how long it takes us to see a problem and fix it. We lost Hardaker and tried using Roberts, Eden, Mata'utia, and so on out of position. We needed halves and tried Mata'utia and Rankin. The list goes on. The point is all of these players are far better in their actual position and these positions have finally been fixed. The issue is how long is it going to take before we solve the other problems in our squad. We'll obviously stick with Shenton next year even tho he's a liability at this point.

It took us over a year to replace Jake Webster it just looks like there's no clear thinking
I will admit it dosnt help when you sign players like Wardle who was signed before Wells came and Blair both I thought were great signinings we actually paid 65 grand I think it was for Wardle and both of them looked like they'd rarther be anywhere else but playing for Cas

[KB80]

You can't say the squad is worse because we aren't dominating the league as we did in 2017.

There are many factors that led to that but by far the largest is that every other squad performed particularly poorly that year.

I enjoyed winning the League as much as anyone, and it's finally on the record books but the fact is that squad in 2020 (had it been a regular season) would not have rolled over Saints, Wigan, Warrington and Catalan like they did back then.

We are doing okay - we should all be hoping we can challenge for silverware but the expectation we should be is unfounded for a club with Castlefords resources.

It baffles me that anyone can look at our 2020 squad and think it is anywhere near the level of 2017.
On a player-by-player basis:
FB in 2017 - Zak Hardaker. Never replaced. We went into 2020 with Jordan Rankin.
Wingers in 2017 - Minikin and Eden, with Joel Monaghan playing when needed. Now we’ve got Eden, Olpherts and Clare. I don’t even know what Feki is like, because he hasn’t played.
Centres In 2017 - Webster and Shenton. Webster was never replaced, until we signed Blair who has been mostly awful. Shenton is three years older and it’s shown.
Halves in 2017 - Gale and Roberts. Trueman and Richardson have potential for sure, but ability-wise they aren’t at the same level.

I’m going to put the forwards together - only Watts is better than the players we had in 2017. If anyone thinks we have signed a better forward than we had in 2017 except him, I’m not sure who they are thinking about.

The decline is obvious and pronounced. Whatever way you measure the success of the team, we have gone backwards at an alarming rate. Personally, I think it set in when Wells said we didn’t need to improve, despite the clear signs that we did.

Unfortunately, this is history repeating itself.

Back on the topic of Wells - what has he brought to the club that we were missing before his appointment? I don’t see the added value he has given us.

Again that's getting away from the point that players haven't lived up to there reputation.

FB
2017 Hardaker, Eden

2020 Rankin, Eden, Turner, Matuita, Hodgeson

2021 Evalds, O Brien, Hodgeson

Hardaker was an opportunist signing which ended terribly, we could sign him because other clubs didnt want him because he is an idiot! It's taken us a while to find a quality replacement but we have 2 good full backs who to my knowledge dont snort coke for next year. We signed Matuita as a fb he just didnt perform in that position.

W
2017 Eden, Minikin
2020 Feki, Eden, Olpherts, Claire
2021 above

On paper this years wingers were far better.

C
2017 Webster, Shenton, Minkin?
2020 Matuita, Shenton, Blair
2021 above

Could be argued 2020 centres are stronger on paper. Sadly Shenton has declined terribly this year and Blair hasn't lived up to hype.

HB
2017 Gale, Robert's, Holmes
2020 Trueman, Richardson,
2021 Trueman, Richardson, O Brien

Weaker now in terms of ability or reputation but 2 are young players we signed to develop around. It had become unsustainable to keep Gale or Roberts. Robert's under performed from 2018 until leaving.

On the face of it the signings weren't obviously problems imo, but they simply haven't performed to expectations (Matuita as a fb, Feki, Blair)

Which forwards have left since 2017 and how many of those that have remained and underperformed since were recontracted before Wells?

Three more points I would make re 2017:
-apply 2020's injuries to 2017 ,
- apply the 2020 Saints, Wigan, Wire, Catalans squads and coaches to 2017
- take out all but a couple of home games and play them elsewhere.

How do you think we do that season?

2017 was a perfect storm which played in our favour for the vast majority of the season. Sadly when it actually came down to the crunch, one of our great signings wasnt available because he could keep off the coke, potentially costing us the gf and a big lump of cash (which was managed awfully, why pay for a player before you contractually have to?).

[Casforthecup]

I’m sure Wells does a great job. He comes across like educated bloke and I’d rather have him discussing contracts them some of what we’ve had before. People need to realise that sometimes we have to plug a gap with somebody who doesn’t quite fit because of the massive constraints on our money. Comparing us to Saints is unfair. Saying we should buy up all Toronto’s players is also unfair. You’ve got to think these are peoples lives as well as just a career why would they want to come from Toronto to Cas? As opposed to one of be bigger places.For those saying a recruitment this year is awful, how do you know?..... it hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure we still have a couple of signings apart from evalds to an announce.

[Casforthecup]

I’m sure Wells does a great job. He comes across like educated bloke and I’d rather have him discussing contracts them some of what we’ve had before. People need to realise that sometimes we have to plug a gap with somebody who doesn’t quite fit because of the massive constraints on our money. Comparing us to Saints is unfair. Saying we should buy up all Toronto’s players is also unfair. You’ve got to think these are peoples lives as well as just a career why would they want to come from Toronto to Cas? As opposed to one of be bigger places.For those saying a recruitment this year is awful, how do you know?..... it hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure we still have a couple of signings apart from evalds to an announce.

[LeagueLeaders]

I’m sure Wells does a great job. He comes across like educated bloke and I’d rather have him discussing contracts them some of what we’ve had before. People need to realise that sometimes we have to plug a gap with somebody who doesn’t quite fit because of the massive constraints on our money. Comparing us to Saints is unfair. Saying we should buy up all Toronto’s players is also unfair. You’ve got to think these are peoples lives as well as just a career why would they want to come from Toronto to Cas? As opposed to one of be bigger places.For those saying a recruitment this year is awful, how do you know?..... it hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure we still have a couple of signings apart from evalds to an announce.

Why not compare ourselves with top teams? After all we are aiming to be one of them and aren't going to achieve that if we don't put ourselves in the same bracket. After 2017 other teams have added to their squad and improved when we have taken far too long trying to get things right. As for Toronto, some players won't have much choice. Gob said in an interview that he was lucky to find a club and some of his mates are still struggling. It sounds harsh but realistically it's not just a sport, it's a business and if we can get some quality players in for potentially less than they are worth because they are desperate then we should be doing it. I could name five or six Toronto players that I'd take in a heartbeat.

[MrRugby123]

I’m sure Wells does a great job. He comes across like educated bloke and I’d rather have him discussing contracts them some of what we’ve had before. People need to realise that sometimes we have to plug a gap with somebody who doesn’t quite fit because of the massive constraints on our money. Comparing us to Saints is unfair. Saying we should buy up all Toronto’s players is also unfair. You’ve got to think these are peoples lives as well as just a career why would they want to come from Toronto to Cas? As opposed to one of be bigger places.For those saying a recruitment this year is awful, how do you know?..... it hasn’t happened yet. I’m sure we still have a couple of signings apart from evalds to an announce.

Why not compare ourselves with top teams? After all we are aiming to be one of them and aren't going to achieve that if we don't put ourselves in the same bracket. After 2017 other teams have added to their squad and improved when we have taken far too long trying to get things right. As for Toronto, some players won't have much choice. Gob said in an interview that he was lucky to find a club and some of his mates are still struggling. It sounds harsh but realistically it's not just a sport, it's a business and if we can get some quality players in for potentially less than they are worth because they are desperate then we should be doing it. I could name five or six Toronto players that I'd take in a heartbeat.

Chase Stanley, Darcy Lussick and Tom Olbison I would take.

[derbystiger]

Ricky Leutele - a true Jake Webster replacement

[Fumper27]

Ricky Leutele - a true Jake Webster replacement

We can but dream!!!

[Juscas]

Ricky Leutele - a true Jake Webster replacement

With what he was rumoured to be on in Toronto he would need to take a massive pay cut to join nearly any club in the league

[True-supporter]

Not sure what cash we have to spend so if you have nothing how can we bring in any class players. Always been the same at cas need proper.

[nottinghamtiger]

Ricky Leutele - a true Jake Webster replacement

With what he was rumoured to be on in Toronto he would need to take a massive pay cut to join nearly any club in the league

Suspect he’ll stay at Melbourne Storm. I doubt they signed him on the basis that he’d only play a couple of games. With Momirovski moving back to Wests, Luetele looks the sensible option for them at centre next year.
To be honest, I’d take Chase Stanley who is probably a more realistic option.

[LeagueLeaders]

Hakim Miloudi is realistic as well. I know he played fullback and halves for them but he does have experience in the centres and definitely has the attributes for it.

[KB80]

Hakim Miloudi is realistic as well. I know he played fullback and halves for them but he does have experience in the centres and definitely has the attributes for it.

Miloudi would be a good and realistic call imo.

[heritage1926]

Certainly not a bad player, but Miloudi is as erratic as they come.