Toronto out who will replace them ?

[tigerfeat]

Toulouse have been making some good signings for a championship side wonder if theve all ready been told it will be them

[LeagueLeaders]

Toulouse have been making some good signings for a championship side wonder if theve all ready been told it will be them

I doubt it. They'll just be pushing for promotion as top Championship teams do. But signing players like Winterstein, Taia, Peyroux.. shows they're definitely going for it

[Hepworth7]

Prefer London to get the nod,however how many of last year's side is still there?, It's a big rebuild for them.

However to keep the expansionists onside they will choose Toulouse. The Fev chairman's statement isn't exactly going to win over the S.L clubs is it?!

Just read the chairman's statement, clearly attended the Bernard Manning school of tact and diplomacy. Where I would agree with him is that whoever replaces Toronto should be decided on the pitch and not by some arbitrary decision made by the RFL. Clubs need to earn the right rather than having it giftwrapped.

[stuey]

According to the local paper, York are going to apply.

They have a new ground, they have recently signed some decent ex SL players, they have a vg coach, and finished in the top 4 in 2019, so they have a fair chance of being accepted.

[LeeThorpe898]

Never been a fan of expansion but I can't deny that catalans have been a success. However Toronto has just been a complete failure having an owner pretty much fund everything is never going to work. Then blowing most of there salary cap on Sonny Bill and not having enough depth in there squad was a joke. So yeah a team in London would be great if done right or maybe promote one of the Championship teams to replace them.

[gateman]

It seems that most of our fans do not want FEV to be considered, but they will be applying, and rightly so they have a ground that if we had there would be no talk of moving, over recent years they have hardly ever finished below the top four their attendances in that division are better than most, the main thing that will hold them back is their location too near us and Wakefield

[Mysterio]

Without doubt Featherstone or another heartlands club steeped in history; Halifax and then Bradford which would recover the Game

Expansion at sexy new locations and marquee signings ain’t the way forward any more.

Survival of clubs and the game is, in my opinion...or strictly along these lines.

[daytona]

I think the outburst from Campbell probably scuppers any chance Fev had of getting in, but I think the smart money would have to be on Toulouse.

[Danny Boy]

I would say London, if only to give our game the possibility of more media exposure, Toulouse may also be worth a shot, as it may lead to more interest in the game in France.

[HuddsTigers]

Without doubt Featherstone or another heartlands club steeped in history; Halifax and then Bradford which would recover the Game

Expansion at sexy new locations and marquee signings ain’t the way forward any more.

Survival of clubs and the game is, in my opinion...or strictly along these lines.

The game is dying with local clubs.

The game needs to expand to generate better commercial opportunities and more income into the game. The Toronto call will ruin any chance the game had IMO. They have killed off a fanbase of 8,000 new fans to the game, better than any other expansion club before.

Self-interest and club's dictating will kill the sport.

[Tamworth Tiger]

Without doubt Featherstone or another heartlands club steeped in history; Halifax and then Bradford which would recover the Game

Expansion at sexy new locations and marquee signings ain’t the way forward any more.

Survival of clubs and the game is, in my opinion...or strictly along these lines.

The game is dying with local clubs.

The game needs to expand to generate better commercial opportunities and more income into the game. The Toronto call will ruin any chance the game had IMO. They have killed off a fanbase of 8,000 new fans to the game, better than any other expansion club before.

Self-interest and club's dictating will kill the sport.

Thanks Hudds, you may be right but as well as what you say about self interest, the clubs were presented with an independent report strongly recommending the rejection of Toronto’s business model. Assuming that the report was sound advice, surely the game has had enough false dawns based on foundations of sand ( Nottingham City, Kent Invicta, Paris St Germain, Celtic Crusaders, Gateshead Thunder, Carlisle, even Sheffield Eagles etc etc) to make clubs wary of shooting themselves in the foot again. In terms of crowds , we need to look no further than Bradford to see how quickly large regular crowds can disappear when results start going in the wrong direction.

[HuddsTigers]

Independent report is loose given that it was partly written by Robert Elstone who was against Toronto all along.

A truly independent report would be written by no inside influence.

I also think the report omitted a lot of demonstrable information, a lot of which Canadian fans have been sharing already about some of the development stuff that has gone on.

The arguments are wafer thin and full of holes. One of which was that Toronto wouldn't add value to the broadcasting deal *at this moment*. Well I think we'd stand a better chance with an exciting and innovative Canadian team than a lower league English side, and especially when the current culprits are seeing the broadcasting deal on the table dwindle. LiVolsi has also come out and disputed a lot of the stuff put out, and there are two sides to every story.

More fans than a lot of clubs, willing to spend the cap, some big sponsors already. Sure the owner messed up with them but the potential was there with support and the right strategy.

Many of the existing clubs are treading water or haven't grown in a decade and more.

[HuddsTigers]

I'd also add that the RFL co-author who recommended to reject Toronto admitted he wouldn't have done so had he read their proposal first. Which says a whole lot about how farcical this is. The RFL then voted to keep them in SL.

Nothing in this makes me think it was right. Even if LiVolsi wasn't the right owner or his proposal wasn't solid, they should have guaranteed SL rugby for Toronto with a points penalty next season to give them a fighting chance of finding another owner.

They didn't; they killed off rugby league in Toronto, and potentially any chance of North American success.

Whatever people's views of transatlantic rugby, Torontonians took to the sport and bought into it and the club did a hell of a lot right in social media and marketing, and those staff members were affected as much as the players.

[nottinghamtiger]

I'd also add that the RFL co-author who recommended to reject Toronto admitted he wouldn't have done so had he read their proposal first. Which says a whole lot about how farcical this is. The RFL then voted to keep them in SL.

Nothing in this makes me think it was right. Even if LiVolsi wasn't the right owner or his proposal wasn't solid, they should have guaranteed SL rugby for Toronto with a points penalty next season to give them a fighting chance of finding another owner.

They didn't; they killed off rugby league in Toronto, and potentially any chance of North American success.

Whatever people's views of transatlantic rugby, Torontonians took to the sport and bought into it and the club did a hell of a lot right in social media and marketing, and those staff members were affected as much as the players.

To be honest, I think they brought more negativity than anything else.
First it was demanding to play all their home games in a block in the second half of the season, and throwing a public strop when they didn’t get their own way,
They woefully managed the salary cap, paying ridiculous wages to a small number of players and then kicking up a fuss when they weren’t allowed to break a salary-cap they agreed to. Again, they threw a public strop about not being allowed to break the rules (that they had agreed to) when they began to struggle.
We had the club chairman making racist comments to a player from another club, resulting in him being the first RL owner/chairman to actually sack himself. Not for long though, obviously.
Even before they entered SL, a number of suppliers brought legal action against them for non-payment for goods and services.
Then we get to this season. Despite having months to make a decision, they decided not to take any further part in the season the day after revised fixtures were published.
Despite a billionaire owner (apparently), they decided to stop paying players, leaving them without an income. They took the same approach to staff, leaving them with no income. They stopped paying rent that was part of players’ contracts, who then faced eviction. They ‘signed’ players who they never paid a penny, leaving them with no income but unable to join another club. They failed to honour the flights to Australia that were agreed as part of some contracts. Basically, they abandoned all their players and staff.
Not only that, they then actually used the fact they hadn’t paid players as an argument for re-admission, pinky-promising that they would pay the wages they should have already paid, but only if they were welcomed back.
And that’s not even thinking forwards.
Firstly, they have no players - by not paying wages they breached contract and all players are free to leave. No players are now contracted to Toronto for 2021.
Secondly, the prospective owner refused to guarantee financial backing beyond 2021.
Thirdly, they were dictating that no more than 2 points could be deducted for any reason in 2021 (suggesting they were well over the salary cap in 2020 or previous seasons).
Fourthly, they are still subject to legal action by suppliers who have not been paid substantial amounts of money. And legal action from players and staff who were not paid.
Fifth, they were planning to play all 2021 in the UK. Any fan base (and that’s arguable given the number of free tickets) is likely to be gone by the time they intend to return to Canada in May 2022 (especially as their last game was in 2019). That fan base will be severely depleted after not playing a single game in Toronto for almost three years.
So all in all, I’m happy they have gone.

[Tigerman2014]

I'd also add that the RFL co-author who recommended to reject Toronto admitted he wouldn't have done so had he read their proposal first. Which says a whole lot about how farcical this is. The RFL then voted to keep them in SL.

Nothing in this makes me think it was right. Even if LiVolsi wasn't the right owner or his proposal wasn't solid, they should have guaranteed SL rugby for Toronto with a points penalty next season to give them a fighting chance of finding another owner.

They didn't; they killed off rugby league in Toronto, and potentially any chance of North American success.

Whatever people's views of transatlantic rugby, Torontonians took to the sport and bought into it and the club did a hell of a lot right in social media and marketing, and those staff members were affected as much as the players.

To be honest, I think they brought more negativity than anything else.
First it was demanding to play all their home games in a block in the second half of the season, and throwing a public strop when they didn’t get their own way,
They woefully managed the salary cap, paying ridiculous wages to a small number of players and then kicking up a fuss when they weren’t allowed to break a salary-cap they agreed to. Again, they threw a public strop about not being allowed to break the rules (that they had agreed to) when they began to struggle.
We had the club chairman making racist comments to a player from another club, resulting in him being the first RL owner/chairman to actually sack himself. Not for long though, obviously.
Even before they entered SL, a number of suppliers brought legal action against them for non-payment for goods and services.
Then we get to this season. Despite having months to make a decision, they decided not to take any further part in the season the day after revised fixtures were published.
Despite a billionaire owner (apparently), they decided to stop paying players, leaving them without an income. They took the same approach to staff, leaving them with no income. They stopped paying rent that was part of players’ contracts, who then faced eviction. They ‘signed’ players who they never paid a penny, leaving them with no income but unable to join another club. They failed to honour the flights to Australia that were agreed as part of some contracts. Basically, they abandoned all their players and staff.
Not only that, they then actually used the fact they hadn’t paid players as an argument for re-admission, pinky-promising that they would pay the wages they should have already paid, but only if they were welcomed back.
And that’s not even thinking forwards.
Firstly, they have no players - by not paying wages they breached contract and all players are free to leave. No players are now contracted to Toronto for 2021.
Secondly, the prospective owner refused to guarantee financial backing beyond 2021.
Thirdly, they were dictating that no more than 2 points could be deducted for any reason in 2021 (suggesting they were well over the salary cap in 2020 or previous seasons).
Fourthly, they are still subject to legal action by suppliers who have not been paid substantial amounts of money. And legal action from players and staff who were not paid.
Fifth, they were planning to play all 2021 in the UK. Any fan base (and that’s arguable given the number of free tickets) is likely to be gone by the time they intend to return to Canada in May 2022 (especially as their last game was in 2019). That fan base will be severely depleted after not playing a single game in Toronto for almost three years.
So all in all, I’m happy they have gone.

:clap:

[old cas lass]

Wow reading all that, they don’t even deserve to be in conference.
That makes some awful reading.
Shambles of a set up.

[Tamworth Tiger]

I’ve had an open mind and haven’t seen the submission but to be honest Hudds, Bottingham T’s post is much more persuasive as to why they should go.
We’ve been down this road far too many times before.

[Tamworth Tiger]

Sorry Nottingham!!

[tigerfeat]

I'd also add that the RFL co-author who recommended to reject Toronto admitted he wouldn't have done so had he read their proposal first. Which says a whole lot about how farcical this is. The RFL then voted to keep them in SL.

Nothing in this makes me think it was right. Even if LiVolsi wasn't the right owner or his proposal wasn't solid, they should have guaranteed SL rugby for Toronto with a points penalty next season to give them a fighting chance of finding another owner.

They didn't; they killed off rugby league in Toronto, and potentially any chance of North American success.

Whatever people's views of transatlantic rugby, Torontonians took to the sport and bought into it and the club did a hell of a lot right in social media and marketing, and those staff members were affected as much as the players.

Your right there social media presence was higher than almost any other super league club there marketing put some other super league clubs I can think of to shame no doubt there fans have been treated shabily just having there club removed without any hope that's what the rugby league do they struggle to get most things right
For me the distance was too far to be sensible in the first place ...but they could have got a North American league up and running and see how we go from there

[johnboy]

Oooooooh yes bring London back, you can guarantee 5 away supporters for each match away from London ](*,)

That just begs the question - should clubs have to rely on away supporters? My opinion is no, it should be the clubs responsibility to get their own fans through the gates and the away following should be a bonus on top.

Oh, and Toronto would have bought thousands hey, as would Toulouse, as do Catalans!

Never wanted Toronto anyway for the same reason. Any club would rather a good home and away support it makes an atmosphere you know. Makes the game more enjoyable, bit of banter etc. Would rather see the Jungle packed than 2/3 full that's for sure.

I’d rather have 6 London supporters than 1000 from Featherstone.

How very dare you?