AGM

All things related to the Castleford Tigers.
Frankas
Michael Eagar
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Re: AGM

Post by Frankas » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:22 pm

Robbo mate you had the chance to sell your shares you were offered the going rate to buy you out, and at the last minute you pulled out, somewhere on this site it's all their in black and white, if I had the money I would buy the Fultons out. I'd even buy Wrights shares, but I don't, Why don't you and your mates have a go again then you could run the club how you think it should be, I'm not having a go mate just saying if you get a consortium together you might have better luck know Jack is no longer with us. Robbo have a very merry Christmas mate
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Casmania
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Re: AGM

Post by Casmania » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:36 pm

Frankas wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:22 pm
Robbo mate you had the chance to sell your shares you were offered the going rate to buy you out, and at the last minute you pulled out, somewhere on this site it's all their in black and white, if I had the money I would buy the Fultons out. I'd even buy Wrights shares, but I don't, Why don't you and your mates have a go again then you could run the club how you think it should be, I'm not having a go mate just saying if you get a consortium together you might have better luck know Jack is no longer with us. Robbo have a very merry Christmas mate
Actually, Robbo and others were looking to offload shares.
I pushed for the sale of shares at a meeting held with club officials. This was agreed at that meeting to offer new shares, subject to a minimum buy up of 5 shares @ £40 per share.
At the same time, some existing shareholders were looking to offload some shares. Any share transfer had to be approved by the club. The club were happy to proceed when shares were being transferred between existing shareholders. However, the club were reluctant for existing shareholders to transfer shares to 'new' shareholders as the club would have not benefited financially by those transfers. That impasse was never resolved.
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Dunkirk Spirit
Sean Rudder
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Re: AGM

Post by Dunkirk Spirit » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:04 pm

HuddsTigers
Malcolm Reilly
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Re: AGM
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Post by HuddsTigers » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:14 pm

The plan B that was in the newsletter 6 months ago was to do up WR. I would imagine it will be similar to Hull KR - probably new main stand first. Ask for £2m from WMDC a la Wakefield

Hope I’m not intruding HT, Trinity wasn’t given 2 million, but received a loan, repayments for the next 15 years. This loan is for land purchase, and stadium development is not included. I don’t know how to paste links so I pasted a report from W Express 10th April 2019.
Tigers don’t have to buy their ground. This is a big advantage for securing a loan if Glasshoughton fails.

Wakefield Council papers reveal Trinity paid 'significantly above' market value for Belle Vue ground

A £3.15m loan handed to Wakefield Trinity to buy Belle Vue is nearly double the estimated value of the ground, secret council papers have revealed.
Wakefield Council lent the Super League club cash to purchase its home ground and adjacent Superbowl site in a deal to stabilise the club last month.
But Belle Vue was only worth around £1.7m when it was valued in January 2018, a document shown to the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS) says.
Although Trinity wants to redevelop the ground to meet new regulations, the council's loan was solely for the club to buy Belle Vue from previous owners, the 88m Group.
The decision notice, which has not been made public by the council, also says there is "no business plan in place" for the running of the stadium once any redevelopment has been completed.

And it reveals that the council must be willing to evict Trinity if it fails to repay the loan, which is being charged at an interest rate of 2.5 per cent over 15 years. Alternatively the site may be sold for housebuilding.
The notice, which was signed by council leader Peter Box on March 13, says: "A Red Book valuation was undertaken in January 2018, which estimated a value of £1.7m for the stadium and land based on current use.
"The estimated value with enhanced planning permission (after redevelopment) for both sites would be in the region of £3.5m to £4m.
"These valuations therefore indicate the purchase price of £3m is significantly above the value of the asset in its current use."
The papers go on to say that there is a "risk" that if Trinity can't repay the loan, any sale of the ground afterwards wouldn't be big enough to cover the taxpayer's losses.
In the event of the club being unable to repay, it says, "The council would need to be willing to a) evict the borrower b) secure enhanced planning permission and c) market and sell the land for residential development."
In a statement about the sale, Wakefield Trinity's chief executive, Michael Carter said: "A significant amount of negotiation went into this, but at the end of the day the asking price from 88m Group was £3m and they wouldn’t accept any lower.
"This then incurs stamp duty of around £150,000. This deal has not just secured the freehold on the entire site, but has put this club firmly back in charge of its own future."
In response to Mr Carter's comments, 88m Group chairman Manni Hussain said: "We had been in Ynegotiations with the council and club for over two years.
We had various independent valuations undertaken not only on the stadium but also on the former Superbowl site which was also sold as part of this acquisition by the club.
"Considering the development potential of the two sites, this is a great purchase and will kickstart the redevelopment of the stadium and surrounding areas into a fantastic stadium, and also secure their home for the foreseeable future."

The deal for Trinity to remain at Belle Vue has all but ended long-held hopes that the club may relocate to a new community stadium on Newmarket Lane in Stanley. That move was given planning permission in 2012 but the ground was never built.

Supporters have called for Yorkcourt, who had been expected to build the stadium, to now pay for Belle Vue's renovations with Section 106 money, which is put into a community by developers when they build. The council papers say that a "reasonable planning case" can be made for that to happen, but adds that it "cannot be guaranteed".

Tom Stannard, the council's corporate director for regeneration and economic growth, said: "We cannot comment on the confidential terms of the loan agreement between the council and Wakefield Trinity, however we can assure residents that the necessary and prudent financial controls have been put in place to make sure public money is secured, whilst still supporting the club.

As you can see, Trinity have now to find funding to build the stadium. As a fan supporting Trinity since 1953, I’m still not convinced I will ever sit there in my lifetime. I do hope both our clubs prosper and survive, but without a rich backer I don’t think it will happen.

Apologies if I’m off topic on the wrong thread. See you in the new season. Happy Christmas

tigerfeat
Adrian Vowles
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Re: AGM

Post by tigerfeat » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:47 am

Interesting I assumed there would be money to do the ground up as well
Carter comes across as a shrewd person to me id assume hed got all bases covered for instance Wakefield could easily have got relegated last season and how would they have gone from there if that had occurred
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Dunkirk Spirit
Sean Rudder
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Re: AGM

Post by Dunkirk Spirit » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:08 am

by tigerfeat » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:47 am

Interesting I assumed there would be money to do the ground up as well
Carter comes across as a shrewd person to me id assume hed got all bases covered for instance Wakefield could easily have got relegated last season and how would they have gone from there if that had occurred

I think that was a concern to all Trinity staff and fans. The 15 years repayment plan is also a concern to fans, not only payment for that, but also for monies borrowed for redevelopment. I sometimes think our two clubs aren’t a million miles apart on the ground issues and the possible consequences of not delivering up to date stadiums.

Casmania
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Re: AGM

Post by Casmania » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:51 pm

tigerfeat wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:47 am
Interesting I assumed there would be money to do the ground up as well
Carter comes across as a shrewd person to me id assume hed got all bases covered for instance Wakefield could easily have got relegated last season and how would they have gone from there if that had occurred
Completely agree, Carter is a very capable individual who has achieved remarkable results off the field.
There were over a 100 creditors owed money when he took over - I have a copy of the list - to start at such a low to become financially secure is testament to the progress going forward.
I want all rugby league clubs to flourish, I wish Trinity well with the ground re-development.
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Robbo
Dean Widders
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Re: AGM

Post by Robbo » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:43 am

Casmania wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:36 pm
Frankas wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:22 pm
Robbo mate you had the chance to sell your shares you were offered the going rate to buy you out, and at the last minute you pulled out, somewhere on this site it's all their in black and white, if I had the money I would buy the Fultons out. I'd even buy Wrights shares, but I don't, Why don't you and your mates have a go again then you could run the club how you think it should be, I'm not having a go mate just saying if you get a consortium together you might have better luck know Jack is no longer with us. Robbo have a very merry Christmas mate
Actually, Robbo and others were looking to offload shares.
I pushed for the sale of shares at a meeting held with club officials. This was agreed at that meeting to offer new shares, subject to a minimum buy up of 5 shares @ £40 per share.
At the same time, some existing shareholders were looking to offload some shares. Any share transfer had to be approved by the club. The club were happy to proceed when shares were being transferred between existing shareholders. However, the club were reluctant for existing shareholders to transfer shares to 'new' shareholders as the club would have not benefited financially by those transfers. That impasse was never resolved.

Thank you for clarifying that. It was true I was sent cheques to buy some of our shares.
However it was not approved by the club.
Therefore as you and others know the cheques were never cashed.

I believe the club should have been owned by fans having a stake.
This could still happen if the BOD AGREED to it.
I would use a crowd funding platform.

If this were the case would you agree an AGM would be useful.

Robbo
All the best to you too
Truth is always best !

Hepworth7
Dean Widders
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Re: AGM

Post by Hepworth7 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:41 pm

In total agreement with all of that, there have been many successful clubs in various sports where the supporters have been the main stakeholders,it gets people more invested in the club and unlike now every share would actually matter,we could,with our passion become a true community club with a wide pool of experience to draw on. So many social as well as sporting enterprises have benefited from crowdfunding and absolutely no reason why Cas couldn't be another one.

HuddsTigers
Malcolm Reilly
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Re: AGM

Post by HuddsTigers » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:44 pm

It's a nice sentiment but how many successful sporting clubs are owned by fans or community groups? Reality is that community groups are good to a certain level but after that you need someone to foot the bills and put in the cash and most fans cannot and will not do that when the going gets tough, which in rugby league is possible.

To be honest, I couldn't care less who owns the club, private individual, private consortium, or shares amongst the fans as long as they put the club first and make sure that it always maintains the values I believe it should be run on.

Put it this way, the shares have been sat there for anyone to buy for yonks and could have done if anyone had the capital to buy them and wanted control or to compete with the Fultons.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

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Robbo
Dean Widders
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Re: AGM

Post by Robbo » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:59 pm

HuddsTigers wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:44 pm
It's a nice sentiment but how many successful sporting clubs are owned by fans or community groups? Reality is that community groups are good to a certain level but after that you need someone to foot the bills and put in the cash and most fans cannot and will not do that when the going gets tough, which in rugby league is possible.

To be honest, I couldn't care less who owns the club, private individual, private consortium, or shares amongst the fans as long as they put the club first and make sure that it always maintains the values I believe it should be run on.

Put it this way, the shares have been sat there for anyone to buy for yonks and could have done if anyone had the capital to buy them and wanted control or to compete with the Fultons.
The last para is completely false.
First we had RW to buy out holding 15% of the shares and a loan of 100k
Then IF refused at the AGM to consider any other form of re financing his loan.
Shares were bought by me and others at 40 pounds only to be rendered valueless following the issue at no value of hundreds of thousands of shares to Ian and Janet Fulton.
Meanwhile having issued control to them we are told the debt remained.
Robbo
Truth is always best !

HuddsTigers
Malcolm Reilly
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Re: AGM

Post by HuddsTigers » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:50 pm

But how many were available about 10 years ago when people could buy them for £40 each. There were about 20,000 unissued. Anyone could have bought those shares. That isn't false at all.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

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Tigerade
Danny Orr
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Re: AGM

Post by Tigerade » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:01 pm

HuddsTigers wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:50 pm
But how many were available about 10 years ago when people could buy them for £40 each. There were about 20,000 unissued. Anyone could have bought those shares. That isn't false at all.
I've had my shares about 15 years. They were £10 each at the time. You had to have a meeting with one of the director's who vetted you to be a shareholder. It was as simple as that and yes there were thousands of shares available to fans but hardly anyone was interested.

HuddsTigers
Malcolm Reilly
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Re: AGM

Post by HuddsTigers » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:09 pm

2013 season and accounts.

31860 shares issued out of 80000. More than 50% available with 110 sold that year. Anyone could have grabbed control by buying those 48140 shares.

Especially given the fact the Fultons only owned 6800 shares or roughly 20% of the existing shareholding or less than 10% of the entire available shareholding. Likewise RW held a similar stake.

So essentially, anyone could have bought a big stake and diluted everyone else down.

13000 shares or £520k injected into the club would have seen that person be the biggest shareholder with around 30% of shares issued. Incidentally, that amount of money could have been used to wipe down the debt too no doubt.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

HuddsTigers
Malcolm Reilly
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Re: AGM

Post by HuddsTigers » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:16 pm

Tigerade wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:01 pm
HuddsTigers wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:50 pm
But how many were available about 10 years ago when people could buy them for £40 each. There were about 20,000 unissued. Anyone could have bought those shares. That isn't false at all.
I've had my shares about 15 years. They were £10 each at the time. You had to have a meeting with one of the director's who vetted you to be a shareholder. It was as simple as that and yes there were thousands of shares available to fans but hardly anyone was interested.
They probably have changed price over time with different directors etc. Fact is that there was a forum post on here about buying shares in the club. They were there for anyone to get hold of had they wanted to.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

casjunction
Danny Orr
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Re: AGM

Post by casjunction » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:48 pm

A bit like affordable housing.
13000 costing £520,000 however many years ago is hardly pocket change now, never mind several years ago.
I would imagine the pool of Cas fans with that kind of money to lavish on Cas would be a very small pool of people in fact they may not even fill a chauffer driven tandem.
Merry Christmas one and all

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