Jamie Ellis

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by derbystiger » 07 Oct 2019, 22:18

Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Exactly! You can’t compare. These lads are putting their bodies on the line in a tough, professional sport. I think 20k starting for a 19/20 year old is fair to be honest.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by nottinghamtiger » 07 Oct 2019, 22:28

Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Let’s talk sense » 07 Oct 2019, 22:49

nottinghamtiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:28
Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.
And everyone who possesses a degree falls into all those categories! Oh deary me. I give in.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by nottinghamtiger » 07 Oct 2019, 23:00

Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:49
nottinghamtiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:28
Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.
And everyone who possesses a degree falls into all those categories! Oh deary me. I give in.
Well obviously not, but likewise it’s worth remembering that everyone who does those jobs do tend to have degrees. To label the likes of teachers, nurses, medical researchers, social workers etc as “pen pushers” is rather narrow-minded.
The thing is, the rationale for paying a 20k+ salary to someone simply because they get “smashed about” just doesn’t seem equitable.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by sparky49 » 07 Oct 2019, 23:44

I thought this was supposed to e a thread about Jamie Ellis, yet we have 2 pages on the subject of juniors playing rugby league and how much they are worth. Another thread derailed, what a surprise.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by fords » 08 Oct 2019, 06:06

sparky49 wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 23:44 I thought this was supposed to e a thread about Jamie Ellis, yet we have 2 pages on the subject of juniors playing rugby league and how much they are worth. Another thread derailed, what a surprise.

Give it a rest with the detailing... yes it's a Jamie Ellis thread but as part of that its evolved into other areas. What do people want a new topic every time someone mentions something slightly off topic. FFS

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mysterio » 08 Oct 2019, 06:46

fords wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 06:06
sparky49 wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 23:44 I thought this was supposed to e a thread about Jamie Ellis, yet we have 2 pages on the subject of juniors playing rugby league and how much they are worth. Another thread derailed, what a surprise.

Give it a rest with the detailing... yes it's a Jamie Ellis thread but as part of that its evolved into other areas. What do people want a new topic every time someone mentions something slightly off topic. FFS
Here here fords. Absolutely ridiculous
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by braytontiger » 08 Oct 2019, 09:48

nottinghamtiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:28
Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.
Wow do you really believe anyone can do getting bashed about, I’d say rugby players are a pretty broad church when it comes to education many will have missed out on university to peruse a sporting dream. To assume they are all thick and not worthy of the “important jobs” in life is just damn rude.
If I was employing a lad to do any job I’d take a lad that as shown professionalism,dedication and a work ethic over some of the lay about students every time.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by nottinghamtiger » 08 Oct 2019, 10:26

braytontiger wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 09:48
nottinghamtiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:28
Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.
Wow do you really believe anyone can do getting bashed about, I’d say rugby players are a pretty broad church when it comes to education many will have missed out on university to peruse a sporting dream. To assume they are all thick and not worthy of the “important jobs” in life is just damn rude.
If I was employing a lad to do any job I’d take a lad that as shown professionalism,dedication and a work ethic over some of the lay about students every time.
I actually said very few of those things, if any.
Someone argued that wages such be high simply because they get “smashed about”. All I said was that this in itself isn’t a reason to pay high wages,
There are some very astute and intelligent RL players, no doubt. Some will certainly have compromised on getting qualifications to play the game, or at least delayed getting them until their RL career comes to an end. I don’t think you’ll find anywhere where I’ve said that all RL players are thick and not worthy of important jobs. Many RL players do indeed go into teaching, particularly within secondary school PE departments.
I guess whether or not to employ someone purely depends on the actual job they want to do and for some jobs certain qualifications are required, but (as you say) almost all jobs involve professionalism, dedication and work ethic. But that wasn’t the point I was making - I was making the point that we shouldn’t be paying teenagers 20k+ a year, just because the job is a physical one.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mysterio » 08 Oct 2019, 10:26

braytontiger wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 09:48
nottinghamtiger wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:28
Let’s talk sense wrote: 07 Oct 2019, 22:08 I had to come in at this point. Message to Nottingham Tiger. Do me a favour please! Don’t compare the job of an aspiring rugby player with that of a four year obtaining pen pusher. These guys are getting smashed about. Maybe not 20-25k as a starting point but definitely 15-18.
Damn those pesky pen-pushers who educate our children, run our hospitals, seek cures for illnesses, prosecute criminals and protect the vulnerable in society.
I’m afraid anyone can do “getting smashed about” and it’s pretty low-level in terms of an employment skill.
Wow do you really believe anyone can do getting bashed about, I’d say rugby players are a pretty broad church when it comes to education many will have missed out on university to peruse a sporting dream. To assume they are all thick and not worthy of the “important jobs” in life is just damn rude.
If I was employing a lad to do any job I’d take a lad that as shown professionalism,dedication and a work ethic over some of the lay about students every time.
With you...
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mysterio » 08 Oct 2019, 10:30

Casmania wrote: A strong academy is the clubs future. Cas are lucky we are surrounded by schools and amateur clubs playing rugby league. You would have thought the club should be able to retain the best players and not see them leave to join fellow rivals
Hallelujah..

Totally this quote.

Why on God’s green Earth we don’t excel in this area is beyond me.

The big clubs spend big money on big players, let’s get back to really cleaning up junior talent. It’s here Wells could add value, if he told us he was revisiting junior recruitment...
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by heritage1926 » 08 Oct 2019, 10:37

Mysterio wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:30
Casmania wrote: A strong academy is the clubs future. Cas are lucky we are surrounded by schools and amateur clubs playing rugby league. You would have thought the club should be able to retain the best players and not see them leave to join fellow rivals
Hallelujah..

Totally this quote.

Why on God’s green Earth we don’t excel in this area is beyond me.

The big clubs spend big money on big players, let’s get back to really cleaning up junior talent. It’s here Wells could add value, if he told us he was revisiting junior recruitment...
Cas High is the most prestigious school in the country for Rugby League, both boys and girls, that is a fact! we need to tap in to this for the future.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mucky1978 » 08 Oct 2019, 11:05

I’m a pen pusher on 40k a year.
Wouldn’t get out of bed for 25k.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by tigerfeat » 08 Oct 2019, 11:08

heritage1926 wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:37
Mysterio wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 10:30
Casmania wrote: A strong academy is the clubs future. Cas are lucky we are surrounded by schools and amateur clubs playing rugby league. You would have thought the club should be able to retain the best players and not see them leave to join fellow rivals
Hallelujah..

Totally this quote.

Why on God’s green Earth we don’t excel in this area is beyond me.

The big clubs spend big money on big players, let’s get back to really cleaning up junior talent. It’s here Wells could add value, if he told us he was revisiting junior recruitment...
Cas High is the most prestigious school in the country for Rugby League, both boys and girls, that is a fact! we need to tap in to this for the future.
Good comments , we have the opportunity with the talent in this area to make this the way forward
Wells said it was the way forward also so let's hope we don't waste the chance
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Frankas » 08 Oct 2019, 11:08

We should have a very close contact with Cas high and Airedale high, some of the players coming out of those schools are the players of the future. Has for Jamie Ellis, I take my hat off to him, Anyone to make the grade at top level in this sport are very good players. We missed Gale and Ellis all season, and especially goal kicking, we dropped at least eight point due to not having either one on the field
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Flat Capper » 08 Oct 2019, 12:24

Does anyone "push a pen" these days?
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by westyorkylad » 08 Oct 2019, 12:31

Whilst the idea of paying youngsters at 18 £20 to £25k a year to sign a contract that may or may not see them play first team RL is certainly a very noble one, ultimately what they are offered will be determined by market forces, i.e. what are your competition paying (what is the going rate) and what can you afford.

The success rate of getting youngsters through the academy system and into a first team shirt is extremely low, I would suggest 1 to 2% when you remember that there is a new crop coming in each and every season.

There is a lot of work for very little reward to get a shot at making it as a first team player, and it has been this way for a number of years. This is not something new.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Casmania » 08 Oct 2019, 12:49

Castleford were at one time renowned for bringing players into the game through the academy system.
The last player to truly make it was Daryl Clark.
We are now being left behind by Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to some degree Huddersfield and Wakefield.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mr XP » 08 Oct 2019, 12:56

Casmania wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 12:49 Castleford were at one time renowned for bringing players into the game through the academy system.
The last player to truly make it was Daryl Clark.
We are now being left behind by Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to some degree Huddersfield and Wakefield.
You could probably add widnes and London to that list too
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 08 Oct 2019, 13:05

Bringing through talent isn't and shouldn't just be a numbers game. They have to be good enough and be able to challenge with the best.

Warrington aren't producers of talent, they are buyers of it from other clubs. The few they have brought through (King, Patton, Currie, Philbin) haven't really fulfilled potential yet or hit heady heights.

Huddersfield are bringing young players through but whether they're any good is a different matter. The fact that they scrapped for their lives suggests they're either not that good, or that they have thrown too many in at once and not allowed them development time.

You could say the same about Wakefield regarding us. Who was the last Super League talent they brought through? Tom Johnstone, which was back in 2014 I think, but before that it's probably someone like Gareth Ellis. The rest haven't amounted to much (Annakin, Ferguson etc all gone on to be released or moved on).

Wigan and Saints are by far the best and that's because they pay the most and recruit a huge number then discard them at a later stage. A quick look at their U16s squad shows them as having 39 players - 39!! Leeds were good but haven't brought through many recently of a good standard. The rest of SL clubs are lightyears behind.

If we want to recruit the best young players the money has to come from elsewhere when we're on a budget. Would we be prepared to reduce our first team budget for young kids?
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