Jamie Ellis

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Flat Capper » 08 Oct 2019, 12:24

Does anyone "push a pen" these days?
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by westyorkylad » 08 Oct 2019, 12:31

Whilst the idea of paying youngsters at 18 £20 to £25k a year to sign a contract that may or may not see them play first team RL is certainly a very noble one, ultimately what they are offered will be determined by market forces, i.e. what are your competition paying (what is the going rate) and what can you afford.

The success rate of getting youngsters through the academy system and into a first team shirt is extremely low, I would suggest 1 to 2% when you remember that there is a new crop coming in each and every season.

There is a lot of work for very little reward to get a shot at making it as a first team player, and it has been this way for a number of years. This is not something new.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Casmania » 08 Oct 2019, 12:49

Castleford were at one time renowned for bringing players into the game through the academy system.
The last player to truly make it was Daryl Clark.
We are now being left behind by Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to some degree Huddersfield and Wakefield.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mr XP » 08 Oct 2019, 12:56

Casmania wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 12:49 Castleford were at one time renowned for bringing players into the game through the academy system.
The last player to truly make it was Daryl Clark.
We are now being left behind by Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington and to some degree Huddersfield and Wakefield.
You could probably add widnes and London to that list too
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 08 Oct 2019, 13:05

Bringing through talent isn't and shouldn't just be a numbers game. They have to be good enough and be able to challenge with the best.

Warrington aren't producers of talent, they are buyers of it from other clubs. The few they have brought through (King, Patton, Currie, Philbin) haven't really fulfilled potential yet or hit heady heights.

Huddersfield are bringing young players through but whether they're any good is a different matter. The fact that they scrapped for their lives suggests they're either not that good, or that they have thrown too many in at once and not allowed them development time.

You could say the same about Wakefield regarding us. Who was the last Super League talent they brought through? Tom Johnstone, which was back in 2014 I think, but before that it's probably someone like Gareth Ellis. The rest haven't amounted to much (Annakin, Ferguson etc all gone on to be released or moved on).

Wigan and Saints are by far the best and that's because they pay the most and recruit a huge number then discard them at a later stage. A quick look at their U16s squad shows them as having 39 players - 39!! Leeds were good but haven't brought through many recently of a good standard. The rest of SL clubs are lightyears behind.

If we want to recruit the best young players the money has to come from elsewhere when we're on a budget. Would we be prepared to reduce our first team budget for young kids?
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by braytontiger » 08 Oct 2019, 13:21

HuddsTigers wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 13:05 Bringing through talent isn't and shouldn't just be a numbers game. They have to be good enough and be able to challenge with the best.

Warrington aren't producers of talent, they are buyers of it from other clubs. The few they have brought through (King, Patton, Currie, Philbin) haven't really fulfilled potential yet or hit heady heights.

Huddersfield are bringing young players through but whether they're any good is a different matter. The fact that they scrapped for their lives suggests they're either not that good, or that they have thrown too many in at once and not allowed them development time.

You could say the same about Wakefield regarding us. Who was the last Super League talent they brought through? Tom Johnstone, which was back in 2014 I think, but before that it's probably someone like Gareth Ellis. The rest haven't amounted to much (Annakin, Ferguson etc all gone on to be released or moved on).

Wigan and Saints are by far the best and that's because they pay the most and recruit a huge number then discard them at a later stage. A quick look at their U16s squad shows them as having 39 players - 39!! Leeds were good but haven't brought through many recently of a good standard. The rest of SL clubs are lightyears behind.

If we want to recruit the best young players the money has to come from elsewhere when we're on a budget. Would we be prepared to reduce our first team budget for young kids?
Where is your evidence for other clubs paying more for youngsters. In my experience that’s not the case, it also as to be said we have probably only missed out on 3 local quality players in the last 5 years. It’s not a case of us not been able to attract top junior players it’s what we arnt doing with them once we have got them where we are falling behind other clubs.

Money isn’t everything. it’s about having a clear pathway from scholarship to first team,doing the right things at the right time. What saints,Wigan, Leeds do different is they get there young players exposed as early as possible get them out on DR and out on loan something we fail to do with any of our younger players.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 08 Oct 2019, 13:36

I'm recalling conversations over the years with people at the club is that others have always been able to outspend us and if we aren't outspending, it's because they have better off-field development opportunities, such as links with local unis for example, as well as better training facilities and sports science.

We can't compete with the packages of other clubs.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Casmania » 08 Oct 2019, 14:47

I would be very interested as to whom you have been speaking with!
The club built a lot of partnerships via the community Trust - mainly through traded services - with the local and wider community, ie schools, colleges and amateur clubs. Unfortunately a lot of these traded services have been taken over by other clubs, notibly Leeds and Featherstone.
Some of the local schools have excellent sports facilities which the club have utilised in the past.
The club reported a profit last year of £691,000, mainly due to the Grand Final and Solomona payment. Allied to the Wembley pay day, provision/resources for the academy should have been sourced.
As stated earlier, Cas are so fortunate to be in a hot bed of rugby league. Are we doing enough to nuture this talent?
You may want to speak to some of those in the academy now, their loyalty is being pushed to the limit.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 08 Oct 2019, 18:13

So what does “In my experience” actually mean Brayton?

I see you on here telling everyone about your experience and I saw a comment from you saying “I know more than most”

Would you like to back up your evidence in the same way you question Hudds?

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by casjunction » 08 Oct 2019, 19:15

I have put forward the point of view before as unfortunately it is valid in many ways.
Selling the dream as that what young hopefuls are buying into.
Leeds an international recognised brand.
Home of Leeds United ,Yorkshire Cricket and The Rhino's.
The Rhino's great stadium, trophy winning (not last couple of years but very successful nonetheless.)
Big Crowds great training facilities at every level.
Successful in the Corporate world with powerful companies and individuals amongst their supporter's who can offer other incentives and then we have Cas.
Selling anyone the Castleford dream must be a tough one.!

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 08 Oct 2019, 21:34

Lofthouse Tiger wrote: 08 Oct 2019, 18:13 So what does “In my experience” actually mean Brayton?

I see you on here telling everyone about your experience and I saw a comment from you saying “I know more than most”

Would you like to back up your evidence in the same way you question Hudds?
To be fair to BT, I think he’s been involve with a lot of junior rugby and the community game. I’d trust him on this side of things.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 09 Oct 2019, 12:42

Not saying I don’t believe or trust what he says at all Hudds.

Just interested to know how he appears to know so much about this subject, which club/clubs he means and is he or has he been involved at a high level. With the way he talks about it all how come the club aren’t using him or are they?

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Nobody » 18 Oct 2019, 20:42

Looks like he could be staying, the interview I've just seen with Danny Orr discussing Richardson.... He mentions Jamie will push on.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Juscas » 18 Oct 2019, 21:53

Nobody wrote: 18 Oct 2019, 20:42 Looks like he could be staying, the interview I've just seen with Danny Orr discussing Richardson.... He mentions Jamie will push on.
Just watched it in case he said Jamie Ellis can push off but no such luck

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by thedogvinnie » 19 Oct 2019, 17:10

I hope Jamie stays just for the hissy fits on here
internet coaches, ive [REMOVED] em

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Fumper27 » 19 Oct 2019, 17:50

thedogvinnie wrote: 19 Oct 2019, 17:10 I hope Jamie stays just for the hissy fits on here
internet coaches, ive [REMOVED] em
Nah VD, people with different onions and views. If we all thought the same, it’d be a pretty boring place...

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Bolton-tiger » 22 Oct 2019, 08:14

Iv seen that leigh is leading the race to sgn him,just hope we have someone in mind if he goes as we are already lite in the halfs

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by gateman » 22 Oct 2019, 08:42

Jamie to me as always been a bit too slow for super league, but like all of our players when he does move on he goes with my best wishes, as far as a replacement lets hope the introduction of a second team will fill any gaps in the first team,

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Mysterio » 22 Oct 2019, 10:15

Link anyone please?
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by jackknife » 22 Oct 2019, 11:04

Mysterio wrote: 22 Oct 2019, 10:15 Link anyone please?
Was on 1 of the Facebook rugby pages.
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