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Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 17:48
by HuddsTigers
Trouble with Saints is that they have two good halves in Fages and Lomax. Probably won't get the game time there, and I have no doubt that Saints already have a young kid lined up coming through the academy who could fill in, as well as other players who can step in to cover 6 if need be.

Saints and Wigan produce so many players that them leaving Saints is nothing to worry about IMO. I also remember Bradford fans saying to us that Gale wasn't a good signing, wasn't good enough and watch and see. Look how that turned out.

If there's one thing Powell and co are consistent at, it's developing quality halves. Truey is on that path, Gale became a Man of Steel, Sneyd looked great despite a young kid and got a big move to Hull, even Aston and Finn stepped up to the plate when they came into the side too.

Re: Millo or Moors, I'd suggest the club know better about their prospects and prognosis than us fans who see the players only on the field. My gut feeling is that Millo plays busted because that's the sort of person he is, stepping up for the team. In reality, as a club we should have recruited someone better to step into his shoes and be gradually reducing down his workload in the team.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 17:52
by tigerfeat
I've no worries about our two young half backs
Are forwards were miles off what you need to have to win big games at Salford that's what worries me tho Griffin as I've said before will be a good player for us so there is that

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 17:53
by nottinghamtiger
HuddsTigers wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 17:48 I have no doubt that Saints already have a young kid lined up coming through the academy who could fill in, as well as other players who can step in to cover 6 if need be.
Yep - Lewis Dodd.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 19:35
by braytontiger
nottinghamtiger wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 17:53
HuddsTigers wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 17:48 I have no doubt that Saints already have a young kid lined up coming through the academy who could fill in, as well as other players who can step in to cover 6 if need be.
Yep - Lewis Dodd.
Dodd and Welsby are very well regarded

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 20:58
by Let’s talk sense
Dodd and Welsby have also been provided with opportunities. I will say it again fanook these journey men off. Loads of talented academy lads in waiting. Pay them accordingly and show some bolloooocks. Stop hiding behind its a big step up etc.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 21:02
by tigerfeat
Wells said in one of his STATEMENTS ...he was going to give youth a chance as it was the only way forward I agree with him let's hope he's true to his word

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 21:15
by braytontiger
Let’s talk sense wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 20:58 Dodd and Welsby have also been provided with opportunities. I will say it again fanook these journey men off. Loads of talented academy lads in waiting. Pay them accordingly and show some bolloooocks. Stop hiding behind its a big step up etc.
Don’t expect anything to change. Some of the offers made to lads they were wanting to play reserve grade was nothing short of slave labour. Needless to say more than half walked away. Cannot blame them tbh

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 21:19
by Let’s talk sense
Tiger feet speaking honestly and truthfully now. The club have some exceptional youth products at this moment in time. I am going to be totally honest this amounts to about 4-6 true prospects across the current board. My question is this “Who is going to provide a cautious and supportive platform for these guys to perform and come through”?
Secondly Supporter’s also have a massive part to play! They tend to demand fantastic top range signings immediately. Example to use Shenny as a test case. Can yo imagine the uproar if he did not come back and was replaced by an home grown cheaper club trained salary capped player?if we all want to progress we All have to get on board.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 08:35
by Aid
Pretty happy with the squad and announced additions. If it had not been for the injuries this season we would have got into the top three.
However, too often we looked clueless in the opposition's 20. That was down to playing with one specialist halfback for most of the season. No problem with Richardson coming in but Ellis has to go and we need a quality replacement.

Announce Richardson and one other halfback please.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 09:36
by gateman
i keep wondering what the shape of our A team will be are we going to raid our local sides to make up the numbers, its been reported that the wages offered to the lads who are over age for our 18s as been small and some of them have walked away

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 10:39
by Mysterio
Let’s talk sense wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 21:19 Tiger feet speaking honestly and truthfully now. The club have some exceptional youth products at this moment in time. I am going to be totally honest this amounts to about 4-6 true prospects across the current board. My question is this “Who is going to provide a cautious and supportive platform for these guys to perform and come through”?
Secondly Supporter’s also have a massive part to play! They tend to demand fantastic top range signings immediately. Example to use Shenny as a test case. Can yo imagine the uproar if he did not come back and was replaced by an home grown cheaper club trained salary capped player?if we all want to progress we All have to get on board.
If the lad in question was clearly one with superb potential we’d be more than onboard, hence a Westerman or a Trueman, or Xerri Evans!!
It’s all about communication and telling the fans our plans,
If we do have 4-6 true potentially world class prospects which I doubt, we ought to be letting our fans know about these kids and gently spotlighting them to encourage further development whilst exposing them to first team type lives.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 21:01
by gateman
the signings so far, Rankin and Griffin i am happy with them two, Olpherts and Hepi i am too sure on Olpherts unable to nail a starting place likewise Hepi only being used in short bursts but DP is a far better judge than me so we will have to wait and see

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 21:10
by Let’s talk sense
Hi Mysterio - just for clarity purposes. At no point did I describe the youth products as being ‘World Class’.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50
by chief193
The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 08:55
by braytontiger
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.
Correct add in that Stuart raper also failed to see the importance of youth development. Certainly is history repeating it’s self, I’m not sure it will end in relegation this time but it could. With Toronto coming in and both Leeds and HKR. Getting their act together somebody as to go and the margins are that close it really could be anyone who takes their eye off the ball or they become complacent.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17
by tigerfeat
I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 09:23
by chief193
braytontiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:55
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured early and we never recovered leading to our relegation. Luke has just left!!!
Super league was stale in 2016 and had become a boring forwards game as popularised by Wigan and Hull, in 2017 we caught everyone out with a brand of passing rugby that everyone else who had brought in big packs couldn’t cope with. Everyone plays the way we did now it’s just a fact that the clubs above us have brought in better players than us in the key roles of the system we popularised.
Correct add in that Stuart raper also failed to see the importance of youth development. Certainly is history repeating it’s self, I’m not sure it will end in relegation this time but it could. With Toronto coming in and both Leeds and HKR. Getting their act together somebody as to go and the margins are that close it really could be anyone who takes their eye off the ball or they become complacent.
I agree I don’t really see us being relegated but a few games either way this year and we would have been in the mix down there. Ifs and buts I know as a few games the other way and we could have been second.
The general quality of SL this year has been poor, with the exception of STs every team has had a really bad patch where they looked awful, we just need to be very wary that everyone else steps on and we don’t

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
by nottinghamtiger
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 10:41
by Tamworth Tiger
chief193 wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 08:50 The comparisons to 1999 are scary, now like then the core of our good team are drifting away to be replaced with sub standard replacements. The final straw back is 2002 was when Danny Orr left us to be replaced with an aging half who ultimately got injured
Who was the half? Remember Mitch Healey around that time but didn’t he come in and play alongside Danny for a while and stayed after he left. I thought he was OK, so who was the other one, Sheridan?

Re: 2020 Squad

Posted: 04 Oct 2019, 10:46
by classycas57
nottinghamtiger wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:37
tigerfeat wrote: 04 Oct 2019, 09:17 I agree to a certain extent but most people thought matautia was a good signing most people thought Blair was a good signing most people agreed it was correct to extend the contracts of the likes of Eden Mcshane Milner Massey and co after 2017 Wardle was playing well in the Nrl
I don't think Wells is the right man in place I've said that before but it's only fair to point out it's easy to be wise after the event
I agree to some extent. My issue has been retention rather than recruitment, and the length of contracts that we gave average or injury-prone players.
James Clare had his contract extended after only playing nine game. Why did we give him a two-year deal to the end of 2021 after only nine games?
Ollie Holmes got a contract extension in early 2018 that takes him to the end of 2021. He had only played 14 games in 2016 and 11 games in 2017. It was madness to give a player who had played so few games such a long contract, and no surprise he’s barely played this year.
Alex Foster - where do we start? He signed a two year contract in 2017 that took him to the end of 2019. For some bizarre reason, we then gave him another contract in 2018, even though he still had over eighteen months on his current deal! Why? We’ve given him a deal to the end of 2021 after such a short time at the club, and when he was under contract anyway! Since he signed his most recent contract, he’s played 6 games. If we hadn’t rushed in with an unnecessary contract, we would have had much more flexibility.
Michael Shenton - giving any player a three year contract that doesn’t end until he is 36 is just ridiculous. He deserved to continue his career at the time he signed his contract, but we should have learnt from Andy Lynch how quickly excellent players can deteriorate with age. Three years was just stupid.
Unfortunately, retentions and recruitment go hand-in-hand. In a salary-capped sport, retaining a player has a direct impact on a club’s ability to recruit new ones. We’ve tied our hands by giving long contracts to players who quite frankly hadn’t earned them.
Couldn't agree more notts