New Ground for Cas or NOT !

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by braytontiger » 19 Feb 2020, 16:33

We are where we are. Hopefully we have a plan B my main concern isn’t the ground as such but will the clubs owner pull the plug if the promise of a shiny new stadium doesn’t come to fruition.
His shares will be pretty much worthless without the new stadium.

Rocky road ahead

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by alftupper » 19 Feb 2020, 16:34

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 16:27 So coming back to my question
If we keep current capacity, sort toilets out and meet health and safety requirements what would be the grounds for throwing us out?
To answer that we would need to see what the qualifying criteria is that they set.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 19 Feb 2020, 17:02

Absolutely. There just seemed to be a growing sense of belief on here that we were doomed without a new ground and I was trying to work out whether it was justified or not.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by JIN JER » 19 Feb 2020, 17:11

There should be no reason at all that 50 speccis couldn't do some remedial work (skills permitting) on such as toilets etc, that's how basic work was done at Belle vue regarding the crush barriers.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by The Firm » 19 Feb 2020, 17:20

Tamworth Tiger wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 17:02 Absolutely. There just seemed to be a growing sense of belief on here that we were doomed without a new ground and I was trying to work out whether it was justified or not.
Michael Carter has said about Belle Vue on more than one occasion that he is expecting a time in the not so distant future that the RFL will tell him you’ve had long enough to sort your ground off you go. Theres isn’t really much worse than ours. Tv image of the stadium is actually part of the criteria. Tarting up the bogs won’t change that.

The next tv deal is quite possible going to be for less, don’t be shocked if that is a time frame that us being worked to and the big clubs will want the biggest slice of the pie. Elstone & Co’s wet dream is only one of us or Wakey, a Manchester branded club replacing Salford, Toulouse & London promoted along with maybe Newcastle and Ottawa and/or New York. And stuff the rest.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 19 Feb 2020, 17:39

Oh if that’s what is going to happen and Salford are going despite having a brand new ground and being a city of 250,000 people there seems little point in doing the ground up.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by JIN JER » 19 Feb 2020, 17:49

alftupper wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 15:48
lurcher wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 15:12

would you buy a house under high voltage power cables and pylons? i'm struggling to think of any houses in the district that have been built in similar surroundings.
Housing estate off Baker Lane Stanley/Outwood built under OHV lines almost grazing the ridge tiles. Also some very nice houses on Chevet Lane
That really surprises me, I'd have thought that with worries that living near overhead cables could harm people's health that developers wouldn't be taking the risk.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tigerade » 19 Feb 2020, 20:03

The next tv deal is quite possible going to be for less, don’t be shocked if that is a time frame that us being worked to and the big clubs will want the biggest slice of the pie. Elstone & Co’s wet dream is only one of us or Wakey, a Manchester branded club replacing Salford, Toulouse & London promoted along with maybe Newcastle and Ottawa and/or New York. And stuff the rest.

Surprised you think that to be honest firm. I get the extreme opposite feeling about what the future make-up of SL will be in 2021. Not one current SL club wants Toronto in now and Catalans are enemy No 1 at the moment. The american dream is almost dead in the water and Catalans failure the promote french players and a better international team hasn't happened. Both have failed to even get a promised TV deal.

For 2021 I can see a 12 team SL as it is now but with the inclusion of Bradford and/or Leigh/Widnes and no French or Canadian teams.

Elstone will do as the 12 SL owners tell him to.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by SuffolkTiger » 19 Feb 2020, 20:07

on side wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 15:02
Tamworth Tiger wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 14:50
tigerfeat wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 14:27 On the face of it Cas can only be seen as a success story over the last 5 or 6 years hotbed of rugby league to get nearly 9,000 speccies including a few hundred pie eaters on a dank winter Friday night couple of weeks ago shows that
The worry for me is this is the RL or super league were talking about and no decision they come to should surprise anybody
I still wonder about whether we could be thrown out on ground condition if we did some basics.
The key would be if it met health and safety requirements followed by sorting the toilets out properly. If those were done and we kept the current capacity what would be the grounds for throwing us out?
Just to be clear I know a rebuild on the current site is financially unviable and would like to see a new stadium. I’m just questioning whether there is a real risk to our future if it doesn’t happen. I’m not so sure.
Wounder what hudds tiger and sirocco7 veiws are now both was in the 100% will get build opinion. Still think I will turn out to be right and the land will be turned in to lateral new housing project
Is that woundering with intent....??

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by The Firm » 20 Feb 2020, 02:00

Tigerade wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 20:03
The next tv deal is quite possible going to be for less, don’t be shocked if that is a time frame that us being worked to and the big clubs will want the biggest slice of the pie. Elstone & Co’s wet dream is only one of us or Wakey, a Manchester branded club replacing Salford, Toulouse & London promoted along with maybe Newcastle and Ottawa and/or New York. And stuff the rest.

Surprised you think that to be honest firm. I get the extreme opposite feeling about what the future make-up of SL will be in 2021. Not one current SL club wants Toronto in now and Catalans are enemy No 1 at the moment. The american dream is almost dead in the water and Catalans failure the promote french players and a better international team hasn't happened. Both have failed to even get a promised TV deal.

For 2021 I can see a 12 team SL as it is now but with the inclusion of Bradford and/or Leigh/Widnes and no French or Canadian teams.

Elstone will do as the 12 SL owners tell him to.
I should have probably added the caveat that they want them in if they bring their own tv deals with them, meaning more pie for the rest. A smaller general tv deal but more actual money for the top British clubs as its shared fewer ways. Anybody below superleague will get nothing, that much is pretty much certain. In fact some lower league clubs are already planning for that eventuality.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by tigerfeat » 20 Feb 2020, 07:52

I was at junction 32 yesterday and it was heaving it would make sense to me to build a extension to it at some point over the road where the land is
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tycho Nestoris » 20 Feb 2020, 09:10

tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 07:52 I was at junction 32 yesterday and it was heaving it would make sense to me to build a extension to it at some point over the road where the land is
That would make sense if the retail sector was expecting the steady rate of growth we’ve had (& become accustomed to) over the past five decades.

The fact of the matter is that online retail is draining the life out of the notion of shopping as we once knew it. How many of those people at Junction 32 were doing nothing more than window shopping, only to go home & buy from Amazon, or another online retailer, for a cheaper price?
Industry professionals are expecting supermarkets to be the next sector to come under pressure.

I think most people are missing the biggest factor in all this- the credit loaned to the club, which is leant against the ground & was expected to be paid back in full when we leave.
IF has already played hard-ball to get the shares he wanted, and wasn’t afraid to use ultimatums as a point of reference, what will his next move be? With no windfall arriving on the balance sheets, what’s the point in Fulton hanging round & (more importantly) what could the new terms of credit be for the outstanding loans, which I believe are equal to the value of the ground.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by tigerfeat » 20 Feb 2020, 09:38

Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Casmania » 20 Feb 2020, 09:43

tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:38 Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
The recruitment and spending on recruitment has absolutely nothing to do with Ian Fulton!
Funding is provided by central funding, nearly exclusively via the contract with Sky.
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tycho Nestoris » 20 Feb 2020, 09:46

tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:38 Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
Look at it like this:
With a shrinking industry, would you rather have one site that was busy or two that only had half the capacity? Unsold/unused units don’t inspire people & are dead money for the developers & council.
At the time of its inception, this plan was solid gold for all involved. We just don’t live in that world anymore.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by tigerfeat » 20 Feb 2020, 09:48

Tycho Nestoris wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:46
tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:38 Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
Look at it like this:
With a shrinking industry, would you rather have one site that was busy or two that only had half the capacity? Unsold/unused units don’t inspire people & are dead money for the developers & council.
At the time of its inception, this plan was solid gold for all involved. We just don’t live in that world anymore.
Yes that's fair enough maybe wishful thinking on my part ...
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by tigerfeat » 20 Feb 2020, 09:51

Casmania wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:43
tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:38 Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
The recruitment and spending on recruitment has absolutely nothing to do with Ian Fulton!
Funding is provided by central funding, nearly exclusively via the contract with Sky.
But not all clubs pay transfer fees for players if your not bothered why pay 100 grand for a prop and not just wait for one to come out of contract and sign him ?
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Tycho Nestoris » 20 Feb 2020, 09:58

tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:51
Casmania wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:43
tigerfeat wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 09:38 Yes this was viable when first thought of there as been no skulllduggery involved like the promised Wakefield ground ,it just crossed my mind when I was at junction 32 yesterday there still might be hope there
On Ian Fulton as I said over a year ago if the new ground wasn't built we would see how much fight he had in him for CTRLFC , I've no idea on that but in his defence he as signed off signings of players into the 100s of thousands I wouldn't have done that if i wasn't bothered quite easy to wait for players to come off contract rarther than spend money on transfer fees
The recruitment and spending on recruitment has absolutely nothing to do with Ian Fulton!
Funding is provided by central funding, nearly exclusively via the contract with Sky.
But not all clubs pay transfer fees for players if your not bothered why pay 100 grand for a prop and not just wait for one to come out of contract and sign him ?
That wouldn’t have been coming from Ian’s personal account. It’d have come out of the money on the clubs existing balance sheet. When I buy items for my company, I don’t use my personal debit card- despite owning the business. A perfect example would be paper for the printer. I buy it because I have a need for it, the letters to clients earns money for the business & it’s paid for with the money the business has on its balance sheet. If there wasn’t any money on the balance sheet, I may have to use my personal account, but I’d expect the money owed to be repaid.
We have to be careful not to look at things from the point of view of fans when trying to work out the potential moves of businessmen. Watts is an asset & seen in the same light as any other asset, when looking at things from the perspective of an accountant or financial management practitioner.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by yorky » 20 Feb 2020, 10:03


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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Fumper27 » 20 Feb 2020, 11:25

That’s just a regurgitation of old news that we already knew.

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