Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

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alftupper
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 01 Dec 2018, 12:29

You seem to be saying that if a policy is not 100% infallible it shouldn’t be tried. In the real world that doesn’t exist.

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 01 Dec 2018, 14:18

If by that you mean I seem to be saying that if I envisage a policy resulting in people being injured/dying, it shouldn't be tried; then yes I guess you're right and that is what I'm saying.

Mental aren't I?
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 01 Dec 2018, 20:41

WF10 wrote:If by that you mean I seem to be saying that if I envisage a policy resulting in people being injured/dying, it shouldn't be tried; then yes I guess you're right and that is what I'm saying.

Mental aren't I?
I have got as much chance of getting killed because of this police policy as the next man and I am happy to take the risk. Still not explained how you’d apprehend moped thugs but then again you are Labour, criticise everything and offer no practical solutions

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 01 Dec 2018, 23:00

You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.

But then again, typical Tory 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 02 Dec 2018, 09:41

WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 02 Dec 2018, 10:44

alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by CasRus » 02 Dec 2018, 13:36

WF10 wrote:
alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:

Alf, I think we are dealing with a simpleton here n WF10 ! Prison is the determining factor of discouraging people from initially going out to commit crime. If they so choose crime thay have to face the consequences and if they are fool enough to do it again from having a grudge against the police, then they would run the risk again of a longer and second prison sentence. Yes there may be one out of a thousand that may want to do this but rest assured, deterrants work and this police action of knocking scum off mopeds has decreased the incidence of this type of crime by 30% they past two months - Now WF10, you cannot argue against these stats, so go back into your "Tim but Dim" little world shouting "La La La" when the obvious smacks you in the face !

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by CasRus » 02 Dec 2018, 13:37

sorry for the couple of typos here

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by CasRus » 02 Dec 2018, 13:53

Did anyone see the Andrew Marr show today with Gove arguing the May plan for Brexit ?? It's a very good watch and is food for thought as to what he says on Brexit.

I have been ardently in the Reece Mogg camp of leaving with a no deal, and was of the opinion still in regarding the consequences of the back stop and the EU having us over a barrel in deciding when we would leave the EU which was maybe never, however, while he admits it aint perfect, he mentions it is also bad for the EU when we have freedoms to have free trade, not pay a single penny back to the EU and sit there still not agreeing to France getting access to our fishing waters, Spain to get joint sovereignity over Gibraltar - It's as bad for them as it is for us !

I have changed my opinion that the May plan while not altogether ideal is what should pass and where we can later engineer to our better advantage over the months coming. This would stop the talk of second referendums, no deals, no Brexit and give us the plan to move forward as all others have massive consequences in massive job losses and the economy having a big hit. Yes it's not fully ideal and there will be a hit whichever way we go, but it is a much softer blow and gives us the foundation to move forward and get this resolved in the 2-3 years to our liking and maintain democracy. To vote down this deal will cause absolute chaos ! That's my opinion !

Just goes to show, it's good to talk and consider the options rather than being stuck in opinion based politically motivated narrow thinking !

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 02 Dec 2018, 15:52

CasRus wrote:
WF10 wrote:
alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:

Alf, I think we are dealing with a simpleton here n WF10 ! Prison is the determining factor of discouraging people from initially going out to commit crime. If they so choose crime thay have to face the consequences and if they are fool enough to do it again from having a grudge against the police, then they would run the risk again of a longer and second prison sentence. Yes there may be one out of a thousand that may want to do this but rest assured, deterrants [sic] work and this police action of knocking scum off mopeds has decreased the incidence of this type of crime by 30% they past two months - Now WF10, you cannot argue against these stats, so go back into your "Tim but Dim" little world shouting "La La La" when the obvious smacks you in the face !
Simpleton :lol: :lol:

A question from 'the simpleton' then:

Is the murder rate lower in US States that have the death penalty - surely the ULTIMATE DETERRENT - than in States that do not have the death penalty? (answer at the bottom)

Of course, you'd assume deterrents (be they prison sentences, death sentences, hands being chopped off etc etc) to be effective. However, what's the word, oh ye, EVIDENCE shows that isn't the case.

To children, you spell out the consequences of their actions e.g. "if you do xxx, then there'll be no xxx", it's a pretty effective strategy.
And one on which the 'deterrent argument' is built, however EV-I-DENCE shows that deterrents are not effective.

People read the papers, watch the news etc & can think they are informed & have all the answers, after all, it's a pretty simple thing to grasp; let everyone know that if they do something wrong (commit a crime) they get punished (put in prison/death sentence etc). You'd think that would be an effective way of deterring crime?

Doesn't work like that I'm afraid - evidence collected (over a near 30 year study, rather than over a 2 month period) shows that US States that have the death penalty have consistently had a higher homicide rate than States without the death penalty https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence ... rder-rates

So, Rus, in your own words - you cannot argue against these stats.

But ye I'm a 'simpleton' because I don't believe what The Daily Mail tells me to.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 02 Dec 2018, 16:10

CasRus wrote:
WF10 wrote:
alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:

Alf, I think we are dealing with a simpleton here n WF10 ! Prison is the determining factor of discouraging people from initially going out to commit crime. If they so choose crime thay have to face the consequences and if they are fool enough to do it again from having a grudge against the police, then they would run the risk again of a longer and second prison sentence. Yes there may be one out of a thousand that may want to do this but rest assured, deterrants work and this police action of knocking scum off mopeds has decreased the incidence of this type of crime by 30% they past two months - Now WF10, you cannot argue against these stats, so go back into your "Tim but Dim" little world shouting "La La La" when the obvious smacks you in the face !
Sorry to burst your bubble again but 'one out of a thousand' may want to re-offend?

How do you explain a recent report stating the following:
Adult reoffending rate - 28.6%
Juvenile reoffending rate - 40.4%
Adults (released from less than a 12 month sentence) reoffending rate - 64.5%

Asking for a simpleton who doesn't read The Daily Mail so of course he doesn't have all the answers, unlike yourself.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 03 Dec 2018, 11:01

WF10 wrote:
alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:
Still not told us your perfect solution...

Of course it doesn't stop others from committing the same type of crime but it prevents the ones you lock up from doing it again. What's your point?

You sound like a potential Tory, you are right the re-offending rates are terrible that is why we need harsher sentences and by that lock rubbish away for much longer and make the prison experience horrendous.

As for these moped thugs potentially being severely injured, fingers crossed for that I wouldn't lose a minute sleep over the ****s

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by CasRus » 03 Dec 2018, 11:35

alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:
alftupper wrote:
WF10 wrote:You've not explained how this is likely to reduce the number of crimes.
Simple, knock them off put them through the courts lock them away so they can’t do it again. Over to you, if you have a better method please share it I’m sure the MET and Home Office will be grateful for your guidance
This will stop others committing the same type of crime?

Not to mention that of course when they have served their time & get released from the prison system they'll be a reformed character and won't fall back into criminal habits?

With the extra bonus of having a grudge with a police force who could have severely injured them by crashing their car into them at 30+mph.

I see absolutely no flaws in this whatsoever #-o :roll:
Still not told us your perfect solution...

Of course it doesn't stop others from committing the same type of crime but it prevents the ones you lock up from doing it again. What's your point?

You sound like a potential Tory, you are right the re-offending rates are terrible that is why we need harsher sentences and by that lock rubbish away for much longer and make the prison experience horrendous.

As for these moped thugs potentially being severely injured, fingers crossed for that I wouldn't lose a minute sleep over the ****s

Agree with you which I was about to draft my response to WF10 similarly.

One thing I would add is that why don't the government have these thugs sent outside in the community in chain gangs where we are struggling to get people to do work that is needed - i.e in the crop fields of Lincoln doing the manual work instead of importing cheap labour from Poland (this would save wages and make the cost cheaper for the community) or have them picking up the rubbish along roads/motorways that knobheads drop in substantial quantities.
A few state governors in the USA deploy this and dress them up in Pink coveralls and the re-offending rate has been proved to have made a significant reduction. It's not rocket science and sometimes common sense should prevail. No wonder there's re-offending when they get 3 meals a day, play table tennis and snooker all day and have TVs !! Some prisons are like holiday camps !

WF10 is addressing another subject in his response in deflection and not acknowledging the fact that knocking scum off mopeds has reduced incidents by 30% - Get with the subject plan WF10 and re-offending is another branch of discussion and there could be a lot more done to reduce this as per my comments if the government could take steps to address which has long been neglected by various governments over the years.

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 03 Dec 2018, 12:48

I deflect??

Honest to God, you 2 are nuts.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by Flat Capper » 03 Dec 2018, 14:48

It's easy to sit back and be a keyboard warrior, spouting off that the moped 'scum' should be treated like rabid dogs. I fully understand why the simple view is knock 'em off.

However, the one ting I have learned is that criminals are always one step ahead of the Police and whilst there has been an initial impact to the new tactic, long-term the chances are the riders will develop new, more dangerous techniques in response.

I can certainly see them riding along the footway more and more, endangering innocent pedestrians but more worryingly, and as these riders are part of a wider criminal network, they start carrying guns to shoot at the Police to try and get them to pull back. This will then prompt more armed officers and so on.

Perhaps if we reversed the austerity cuts to Police funding and put more Officers on the beat as a matter of course then we may see crime levels fall all round?
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 03 Dec 2018, 16:34

It was a simple question on whether the MET should use this tactic to stop scooter muggers from getting away and so far we’ve had from WF10 various waffle on reoffending rates, the death penalty in the US and somebody who killed himself on a moped but he still won’t enlighten us as to how he’d go about it! :lol:

Also managed to reference Abbott’s race and gender, how ironic that our only female PM’s in this country have been Conservatives

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 03 Dec 2018, 17:21

Flat Capper wrote:It's easy to sit back and be a keyboard warrior, spouting off that the moped 'scum' should be treated like rabid dogs. I fully understand why the simple view is knock 'em off.

However, the one ting I have learned is that criminals are always one step ahead of the Police and whilst there has been an initial impact to the new tactic, long-term the chances are the riders will develop new, more dangerous techniques in response.

I can certainly see them riding along the footway more and more, endangering innocent pedestrians but more worryingly, and as these riders are part of a wider criminal network, they start carrying guns to shoot at the Police to try and get them to pull back. This will then prompt more armed officers and so on.

Perhaps if we reversed the austerity cuts to Police funding and put more Officers on the beat as a matter of course then we may see crime levels fall all round?
Not sure how agreeing with MET police policy makes anyone a keyboard warrior but hey ho the sage of Fev has spoken. Interesting that you say the criminals are always one step ahead then suggest 1950’s style bobbies on the best as a solution. The usual muddle headed thinking we now expect from you.

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by WF10 » 03 Dec 2018, 18:10

alftupper wrote:It was a simple question on whether the MET should use this tactic to stop scooter muggers from getting away and so far we’ve had from WF10 various waffle on reoffending rates, the death penalty in the US and somebody who killed himself on a moped but he still won’t enlighten us as to how he’d go about it! :lol:

Also managed to reference Abbott’s race and gender, how ironic that our only female PM’s in this country have been Conservatives
Alf, you are too easy.

If you care to read it back: Rus suggested 1 in 1000 criminals reoffend; I pointed out it's nearer to 2 in 3.

He also suggested deterrents work; I pointed out that the threat of death doesn't deter people from committing murder, evidenced with statistics from 1990-2016.

I think a more proactive approach should be taken whereby the police are resourced to do their job properly & resource local authorities to deliver preventative and diversionary activities.

Reckon that'd work better than letting the short handed, over worked, under resourced police decide who gets rammed off their scooter myself.

I feel the policy is flawed - if they can get close enough to knock them off they can get close enough to stop them.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by Flat Capper » 03 Dec 2018, 18:16

Please provide the quote where I said 1950's style bobbies.

The lack of a visible Police presence on our streets almost gives criminals the control of them. It's the same with Roads Policing where drivers simply know they are unlikely to get caught and therefore drive/park how they want. We need more Police to help deter criminals. It may interest you to note that road casualty figures are on the increase.

And, by calling you a keyboard warrior I'm suggesting it's easy for you to sit there behind your keyboard and demand a strong response. I'm sure you'd be more than capable of driving into a motorcyclist with extensive risk of injury or even death. Why don't you join the MET and put yourself in the frontline of a public service?
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

Post by alftupper » 03 Dec 2018, 21:45

WF10 wrote: I think a more proactive approach should be taken whereby the police are resourced to do their job properly & resource local authorities to deliver preventative and diversionary activities.

Reckon that'd work better than letting the short handed, over worked, under resourced police decide who gets rammed off their scooter myself.
completely missing the point that the crime wave taking place in London right now needs urgent action not some waffle about police funding and providing leisure centres for the poor little darlings

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