Next Year's Squad

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Lofthouse Tiger
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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 06 Nov 2018, 15:27

Caused us many problems replacing him and maybe this is why we are paying money for extra cover so we don’t get caught again.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by John » 06 Nov 2018, 17:07

BigBez10 wrote:
Lofthouse Tiger wrote:If you think Ellis couldn’t believe his luck what does that tell you? I bet he thought it was Christmas when he was offered a 3 year deal.

Ellis before Roberts? Roberts is far more versatile and can cover 3 positions, Ellis can’t.

McShane at SH is better than Ellis and he would be very effective, maybe not as much as he is at 9 but still contributes massively. Gale, Truman, Roberts and McShane. Why do we need a 1 trick pony on a 3 year deal?
The point is surely that playing Ellis negates the need to swap and change players away from their most potent positions.

Ellis in the halves with McShane at hooker and Milner playing loose > McShane in the halves, Milner at Hooker and another forward coming in...
Mc Shane can play half with Oneill coming back in as the hooker milner stays loose and oneill there for loose if needed DP is wanting him to play both positions

Lofthouse Tiger
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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 06 Nov 2018, 17:27

Ellis in the halves with McShane at hooker and Milner playing loose > McShane in the halves, Milner at Hooker and another forward coming in...[/quote]
Mc Shane can play half with Oneill coming back in as the hooker milner stays loose and oneill there for loose if needed DP is wanting him to play both positions[/quote]

Good shout, never thought of that scenario. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Tigerman2014
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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Tigerman2014 » 06 Nov 2018, 19:57

Think we could see Jacques step up this year he’s very capable of stepping up to super league espically now he’s grown abit

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by betts21 » 06 Nov 2018, 20:43

Tigerman2014 wrote:Think we could see Jacques step up this year he’s very capable of stepping up to super league espically now he’s grown abit
Still never been announced his deal have we yet be interesting to see how his transformation to loose goes

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by heritage1926 » 06 Nov 2018, 22:43

I'd take Gelling if he get's out of moving to Widnes.

Tigerman2014
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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Tigerman2014 » 07 Nov 2018, 08:53

Staying at Widnes is Gelling would be just what we need though

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by BigBez10 » 07 Nov 2018, 09:56

John wrote:
BigBez10 wrote:
Lofthouse Tiger wrote:If you think Ellis couldn’t believe his luck what does that tell you? I bet he thought it was Christmas when he was offered a 3 year deal.

Ellis before Roberts? Roberts is far more versatile and can cover 3 positions, Ellis can’t.

McShane at SH is better than Ellis and he would be very effective, maybe not as much as he is at 9 but still contributes massively. Gale, Truman, Roberts and McShane. Why do we need a 1 trick pony on a 3 year deal?
The point is surely that playing Ellis negates the need to swap and change players away from their most potent positions.

Ellis in the halves with McShane at hooker and Milner playing loose > McShane in the halves, Milner at Hooker and another forward coming in...
Mc Shane can play half with Oneill coming back in as the hooker milner stays loose and oneill there for loose if needed DP is wanting him to play both positions
So you're saying the better call was to swap our best player from his preferred position and then bring in an untried player into a pivotal position, rather than play a halfback who is experienced at superleague level, and keep our best player in his preferred position?

That's just seems madness to me.

Luckily we don't make these decisions, I'll stick with what DP thought was best - didn't do us too bad did it.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 07 Nov 2018, 10:03

So let’s stick with a 4th choice journeyman instead of trying a young kid, as we did with Truenan, because he isn’t tried or tested? How is anyone supposed to be tried and tested when they are not given a chance?

Ellis as a stop gap or young kids that should be the future? We have a great history of promoting young kids. Seems to be a lot slower under DP unless a necessity.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by SREGITSAC » 07 Nov 2018, 10:22

The irony of this conversation when the same people are bagging Minikin at Centre because he’s only played c20 times in that position in Super League.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by John » 07 Nov 2018, 10:31

Im not saying play oneill week in week out but its an option and if you have seen him play you would not be saying dont play him quite the opposit my opinion next best young one to come through

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Boom » 07 Nov 2018, 10:41

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:So let’s stick with a 4th choice journeyman instead of trying a young kid, as we did with Truenan, because he isn’t tried or tested? How is anyone supposed to be tried and tested when they are not given a chance?

Ellis as a stop gap or young kids that should be the future? We have a great history of promoting young kids. Seems to be a lot slower under DP unless a necessity.
To be fair to Powell we’re a top 4 team because he doesn’t have to play young kids that are nowhere near ready. In the past other coaches haven’t had that luxury.

Trueman is an absolute exception to that and you’re correct he wouldn’t have played as many games last season had it not been for injuries.

Out of our other young players there are only a couple who are anywhere close to SL standard at the moment. We’ve seen Turner who has potential but also has some significant weaknesses which need to be worked on away from SL.

It’s a fine line, but if we’re happy to finish at the lower end of the table let’s throw in more inexperienced, physically undercooked youngsters.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by mart0042 » 07 Nov 2018, 11:02

Truey would have been eased into his role but injuries dictated he had to play and it worked out for us. Prior forget our injury list, where we had one junior halfback backed up by someone to fill in. Or a player unfit.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by BigBez10 » 07 Nov 2018, 12:19

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:So let’s stick with a 4th choice journeyman instead of trying a young kid, as we did with Truenan, because he isn’t tried or tested? How is anyone supposed to be tried and tested when they are not given a chance?

Ellis as a stop gap or young kids that should be the future? We have a great history of promoting young kids. Seems to be a lot slower under DP unless a necessity.
Just to be clear, I'm speaking specifically about Ellis's contribution to last season. I'm not saying don't promote youth or that we should go with Ellis moving forward. I just saying in my opinion Ellis proved his worth to the squad last season.

If Powell thinks a player is ready to step up he will play them when the opportunity arises, like with Trueman. The fact that Powell chose to run with Ellis should be enough to prove he believed that to be the better/safer option, which in the long run paid off as we finished third.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 07 Nov 2018, 14:38

RE: Ellis, like many others you have to look at the context of his signing. The length of contract given was surprising but I guess that was done with the intention of seeing him as very much a squad player anyway and to make sure we weren't desperately scrabbling for a new half-back this season. He also probably fills very little in the way of cap space for an experienced and solid player in what is a notoriously expensive position.

My guess is that he was very much a stop-gap signing until we recruited a full-back. We had a 'make do' approach to filling that spot last season hoping that Roberts would fill void until we could recruit that spot. I don't think the club imagined that Trueman would make such a contribution and breakthrough as he did. Ellis would come in until Truey was ready and then take over the spot vacated by Roberts at the end of this year.

The very fact he did now means we have Roberts, Ellis, Gale and Trueman competing for the same spots this season. There's nothing but rumours to suggest that he may be the makeweight in freeing up salary cap but I'd imagine he's now 4th choice this season so it does seem plausible that for the benefit of club and player that he is. To be fair even a loan deal for the season may make sense with him returning to provide cover for Gale and Trueman next year should Roberts leave.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by braytontiger » 07 Nov 2018, 14:46

HuddsTigers wrote:RE: Ellis, like many others you have to look at the context of his signing. The length of contract given was surprising but I guess that was done with the intention of seeing him as very much a squad player anyway and to make sure we weren't desperately scrabbling for a new half-back this season. He also probably fills very little in the way of cap space for an experienced and solid player in what is a notoriously expensive position.

My guess is that he was very much a stop-gap signing until we recruited a full-back. We had a 'make do' approach to filling that spot last season hoping that Roberts would fill void until we could recruit that spot. I don't think the club imagined that Trueman would make such a contribution and breakthrough as he did. Ellis would come in until Truey was ready and then take over the spot vacated by Roberts at the end of this year.

The very fact he did now means we have Roberts, Ellis, Gale and Trueman competing for the same spots this season. There's nothing but rumours to suggest that he may be the makeweight in freeing up salary cap but I'd imagine he's now 4th choice this season so it does seem plausible that for the benefit of club and player that he is. To be fair even a loan deal for the season may make sense with him returning to provide cover for Gale and Trueman next year should Roberts leave.
No problem with Ellis he provides good cover as shown last year,as a 3rd/4th choice half you wont find many better elsewhere.the half we should be questioning is Corey Aston who's still yet to play other than in a couple of friendlies one of which he was awful.its signing players like this which hampers young players coming through taking up valuable money and a training spot a youngster should be filling.

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by fords » 07 Nov 2018, 21:36

Ken Sio

"This signing is an outstanding capture," head coach Ian Watson said.

"Ken is a player who can play full-back, winger and centre and comes with great experience."

And is 28 just what we needed ah well .......

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Tigerman2014 » 07 Nov 2018, 21:56

What are we doing Sio would have been ideal we must have some cap space surely ????

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by betts21 » 07 Nov 2018, 22:20

Sio should have been our main target imo played superleague knows what its about fits exactly what we need. I am pretty concerened that other teams have made some very astute signings and imo our squad has weakened and definatly not gained from a team that did well last year without pulling up any trees i really hope we have a top quality back lined up or imo were in the same mould as last year. We had no fullback or at least proven full back and that really hindered us as what ever we tried didnt really work and now we seem to be doing it in the centre position imo. It may work out but losing jake,jy and qlt for no one to come in as a back up is a big move imo

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Re: Next Year's Squad

Post by Tigerman2014 » 07 Nov 2018, 22:22

If we don’t bring in an outside back before the season starts we will start on the back foot same as last years full back fiasco !!!

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