Zak's return?

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Nu Shooze
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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Nu Shooze » 16 Dec 2017, 16:21

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:
drleftie wrote:
Adelaide Tigurrrr! wrote:A lot of people on here are hypoctites.

They would be willing to get rid of other players who are not as good as Hardaker. In my view there should be no difference between the best player or the most junior. Get rid of! If Hardaker stays it means the team spirit and high morals that DP has instilled mean absolutely sod all.

People say Hardaker should stay because we paid £150k for him, well we all knew that was a gamble the club took and he still shafted us. If he stays and we have to pay him his full wage then it will cost the club another £250k for him to sit on his arse. And then people moan we cant buy quality players.

Finally, I read the Andrew Johns autobiography. Johns suffered from bi-polar and for years during the season he would get absolutely drunk and be found slumped in the corner of pubs. His club, his team mates, supporters and journalists all knew he had a problem but because he was the worlds best player everybody kept quiet. So he never had to face up to his problem, or suffer consequences for his actions, until after he retired and got arrested in London for possession of drugs.
I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a clause in every player's contract relating to their wages during a suspension. He won't be getting paid £100k a year to sit at home.
Absolutely spot on post. Sadly this was then followed by a post that reflects society. How anyone wants to keep hin after what he has done is beyond me.

It seems its all about money and making sure nobody else signs him. Pathetic.
For me it's nothing to do with the money, but the fact that with him in the side we looked like, and were, serious contenders. We've been building for a few years and he was the missing piece.

No idea what the club will do but there will be those for and those against whatever the outcome. Would I keep him? Yes; he's simply that good. I fully understand those who would say the opposite and whilst it's not a case of win at all costs, neither do l wish to see us brought down by our own principles.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 16 Dec 2017, 20:50

TT Tiger wrote:I look at it this way. If Zak does get a 2 year ban. In 2 years we have the chance of getting who I consider to be the best full in the world last year. As a club in a results driven business I could not over look this. The second thing is I do not wanting coming to Weldon Road in 2 years getting a man of the match performance and scoring a hat trick for Wigan. We are in a position where we can keep him and not sell to rivals. And so from that point of view I’d keep him. That’s my opinion and I know we all have our own.
What about rhe "Result" at the GF? Who was a massive factor in that?

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 16 Dec 2017, 20:53

Nu Shooze wrote:
Lofthouse Tiger wrote:
drleftie wrote:
Adelaide Tigurrrr! wrote:A lot of people on here are hypoctites.

They would be willing to get rid of other players who are not as good as Hardaker. In my view there should be no difference between the best player or the most junior. Get rid of! If Hardaker stays it means the team spirit and high morals that DP has instilled mean absolutely sod all.

People say Hardaker should stay because we paid £150k for him, well we all knew that was a gamble the club took and he still shafted us. If he stays and we have to pay him his full wage then it will cost the club another £250k for him to sit on his arse. And then people moan we cant buy quality players.

Finally, I read the Andrew Johns autobiography. Johns suffered from bi-polar and for years during the season he would get absolutely drunk and be found slumped in the corner of pubs. His club, his team mates, supporters and journalists all knew he had a problem but because he was the worlds best player everybody kept quiet. So he never had to face up to his problem, or suffer consequences for his actions, until after he retired and got arrested in London for possession of drugs.
I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a clause in every player's contract relating to their wages during a suspension. He won't be getting paid £100k a year to sit at home.
Absolutely spot on post. Sadly this was then followed by a post that reflects society. How anyone wants to keep hin after what he has done is beyond me.

It seems its all about money and making sure nobody else signs him. Pathetic.
For me it's nothing to do with the money, but the fact that with him in the side we looked like, and were, serious contenders. We've been building for a few years and he was the missing piece.

No idea what the club will do but there will be those for and those against whatever the outcome. Would I keep him? Yes; he's simply that good. I fully understand those who would say the opposite and whilst it's not a case of win at all costs, neither do l wish to see us brought down by our own principles.
Brought down by our own principles? Why have them in place only to go against them because of who it is and what he cost?

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Adelaide Tigurrrr! » 16 Dec 2017, 23:14

Exactly.

DP has laid great foundations by putting into place principles, good ethics and morals that every player knows. Players have come to the club knowing that they are coming into a club that respects them and that every player will be treated fairly.

Cas have become a very well respected club. If some on here want that reputation to be trashed then fair enough.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Aid » 16 Dec 2017, 23:31

Zac has a contract with the Castleford tigers to provide a service, namely to play rugby league. If HE fails to provide that service, and it is blatantly clear that no fault lies with the club - and that is the case. Then when he gets a two year ban, Cas suspend him and suspend paying him. Cas retain his Rugby league registration. If Wigan, or indeed any club wants him at the end of the two years then they can buy his registration. His rugby league registration is an asset that Cas have paid for and if we can get something back for it we should
Personally, I think that as soon as the club were told that he had failed a drugs test then his wage should have been suspended. I hope that this has happened.

He is history, Benny to full back and inwards to the 2018 season
cum on you Ford

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by cogito ergo sum » 17 Dec 2017, 10:03

The discussion around principles, morals or ethics is interesting. Is Zak's crime taking coke, letting down Cas or getting caught?
Are we naive enough to think that if DP was aware that Zak or any other player was taking recreational drugs, they would be sacked? We would be getting rid of Zak because he's been caught, and so can't do his job, not because we are guardians of morals.
Zak's "habits" were an open secret, yet we signed him. If our role was one of moral standards setting we wouldn't have.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by tigerfeat » 17 Dec 2017, 10:13

If all the players taking coke were to be sacked youd struggle to put six super league sides together , dont make it right but it is what it is
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Big Shug » 17 Dec 2017, 11:21

Out of interest, are newly signed players not drug tested as part of their medical before signing.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by nottinghamtiger » 17 Dec 2017, 11:39

Big Shug wrote:Out of interest, are newly signed players not drug tested as part of their medical before signing.
They might be, but everyone knows cocaine passes through the system very quickly. It’s only going to be detected (in a urine test) if you have taken it in the previous 24 hours or so. Obviously not an exact science as it depends on how much is taken.
Fresh orange juice also ‘masks’ the metabolite of cocaine, so even if you have taken it it’s easy to make sure is doesn’t show up on a test.

It’s an indication of how stupid Hardaker is that he:
1. Probably snorted it the evening before a game and
2. Having done so, didn’t bother to drink a couple of cartons of orange juice to make sure he wasn’t caught.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 12:04

Can I just point out no where at all does it say that zaks crime is taking coke/medtabolite of coke or anything illegal. What it does say is he had a banned substance in his body. Does anyone here know for a fact that it was coke? Had he taken too much of his inhaler? Let’s wait and see the facts before we hang the lad out to dry. It might be coke but it’s funny all other statements about players and drugs mentioned coke zaks does not.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by chesterfieldtiger » 17 Dec 2017, 12:18

All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
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Re: Zak's return?

Post by bane73 » 17 Dec 2017, 14:02

chesterfieldtiger wrote:All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
That’s what I said in the first week of his ban. Everyone was saying coke but I hasn’t been confirmed that it is Colombian marching powder, ok, it’s more than likely it is but until it’s confirmed it’s mere speculation.
what doesn't kill me simply makes me...stranger.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by cogito ergo sum » 17 Dec 2017, 14:48

bane73 wrote:
chesterfieldtiger wrote:All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
That’s what I said in the first week of his ban. Everyone was saying coke but I hasn’t been confirmed that it is Colombian marching powder, ok, it’s more than likely it is but until it’s confirmed it’s mere speculation.
If I was Zak and this was a miscarriage of justice, I wouldn't have been apologising to everyone, I'd have been protesting my innocence to anyone who would listen.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 15:59

I’m not saying innocent just maybe not coke.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:11

Well put Aid.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by sparky49 » 17 Dec 2017, 17:15

Personally, I think that as soon as the club were told that he had failed a drugs test then his wage should have been suspended. I hope that this has happened.

He is history, Benny to full back and inwards to the 2018 season
cum on you Ford

You cannot suspend someone without pay, they have to be paid in full until the case has run it's course.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:18

Does anyone think that he hasnt touched the Colombian Talc since this was highlighted?

Just to add the "Crime" isnt getting caught. Dont take it wont get caught.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:39

No the “crime” is a banned substance it may only be semantics and irrelevant in the long run but up to now only journalists have said cocaine not anyone official. Thus time last year everyone was congratulating the club on their silence surrounding the snakes case but now that same silence and professionalism is deafening. You can’t stop an employees wages until the trial is heard so saying the club should is ludicrous.
We need to remember we don’t have the facts to make the decisions. And it’s not our decision to make. Having seen what has happened in the last 4 years at this club I can’t see DP or SG doing anything to intentionally damage the club.
COYF!

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Aid » 17 Dec 2017, 18:11

sparky49 wrote:Personally, I think that as soon as the club were told that he had failed a drugs test then his wage should have been suspended. I hope that this has happened.

He is history, Benny to full back and inwards to the 2018 season
cum on you Ford

You cannot suspend someone without pay, they have to be paid in full until the case has run it's course.
Of course you can suspend him without pay! He admitted guilt in his public statement. He has not said that he was appealing. He has no employment rights he has contractual rights and he blew them apart when he choose to sniff a white line.
If he wanted to go to court to claim that Cas had broken his contract, let him - his contract was to play Rugby
League, It is Hardaker who has crossed the line, is in the wrong. No legal team would touch him with a proverbial bargepole!
cum on you Ford

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by takethetwo » 17 Dec 2017, 19:50

I too thought you couldn't be suspended without pay.
Unless a disciplinary has taken place of course.

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