Hardaker

[mart0042]

Agreed - If Perez wants to part with some serious cash we should take it. Of course Zak would have to want to go to Toronto but from what I have heard he is open to offers.

Unless we sack him or release him, he isn't open to anything. He's a Cas employee.

I just hope we find out what is gale of and then we can plan and move on. Until then we are stuck

[derbystiger]

Agreed - If Perez wants to part with some serious cash we should take it. Of course Zak would have to want to go to Toronto but from what I have heard he is open to offers.

Unless we sack him or release him, he isn't open to anything. He's a Cas employee.

I just hope we find out what is gale of and then we can plan and move on. Until then we are stuck

Unless we have given him permission to speak to other people?

[nottinghamtiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

[derbystiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

[nottinghamtiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

Absolutely not. WADA have very stringent rules that suspended players and clubs have to adhere to, and not doing so can have very serious consequences for both. Just to recap the rules:

“During a period of Ineligibility individuals shall not be permitted to participate in any capacity in a Competition, Event or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by:
• the RFL or any body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL;
• any Signatory;
• any club or other body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by, a Signatory or a
Signatory’s member organisation;
• any professional league or any international or national-level Event organisation; or
• any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.”

He can’t be employed by anyone directly associated with any club that is a member of the RFL, nor and organisation affiliated to any club.
The word ‘affiliated’ is a bit murky, but I think a club would be making a big mistake if he worked for a sponsor too. They are deemed to be affiliates for salary-cap purposes (although they are RFL regulations rather than WADA ones) and sponsors cannot make direct payments to players (as Salford found out in the case with Tony Puletua). It woud be hard to argue that a company that provides sponsorship to a club is not ‘affiliated’ to the club simply through the commercial agreement between them. It would also be hard to argue that the club had not “organised, convened or authorised” this to happen.
If he’s banned, WADA have more or less made sure he cannot he paid by any organition, or one of their affiliates, during his suspension.
It would be a massive risk for any club to even try it. WADA have the power to ban nations from competitions. To them a rugby league club is small fry.

[tigerfeat]

But surely 5 star comercial cleaning is a sponsor havnt we got there name between the shoulder blades of the new shirt ? Maybe hes allowed to work there till hes actually banned

[Nu Shooze]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

Absolutely not. WADA have very stringent rules that suspended players and clubs have to adhere to, and not doing so can have very serious consequences for both. Just to recap the rules:

“During a period of Ineligibility individuals shall not be permitted to participate in any capacity in a Competition, Event or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by:
• the RFL or any body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL;
• any Signatory;
• any club or other body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by, a Signatory or a
Signatory’s member organisation;
• any professional league or any international or national-level Event organisation; or
• any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.”

He can’t be employed by anyone directly associated with any club that is a member of the RFL, nor and organisation affiliated to any club.
The word ‘affiliated’ is a bit murky, but I think a club would be making a big mistake if he worked for a sponsor too. They are deemed to be affiliates for salary-cap purposes (although they are RFL regulations rather than WADA ones) and sponsors cannot make direct payments to players (as Salford found out in the case with Tony Puletua). It woud be hard to argue that a company that provides sponsorship to a club is not ‘affiliated’ to the club simply through the commercial agreement between them. It would also be hard to argue that the club had not “organised, convened or authorised” this to happen.
If he’s banned, WADA have more or less made sure he cannot he paid by any organition, or one of their affiliates, during his suspension.
It would be a massive risk for any club to even try it. WADA have the power to ban nations from competitions. To them a rugby league club is small fry.

If those are the rules, as quoted, there is no reference to either employment or payment. It says 'participate'. If it meant a player cannot be employed or paid then surely it would say that. Using the word participate suggests something else.

[derbystiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

Absolutely not. WADA have very stringent rules that suspended players and clubs have to adhere to, and not doing so can have very serious consequences for both. Just to recap the rules:

“During a period of Ineligibility individuals shall not be permitted to participate in any capacity in a Competition, Event or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by:
• the RFL or any body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL;
• any Signatory;
• any club or other body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by, a Signatory or a
Signatory’s member organisation;
• any professional league or any international or national-level Event organisation; or
• any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.”

He can’t be employed by anyone directly associated with any club that is a member of the RFL, nor and organisation affiliated to any club.
The word ‘affiliated’ is a bit murky, but I think a club would be making a big mistake if he worked for a sponsor too. They are deemed to be affiliates for salary-cap purposes (although they are RFL regulations rather than WADA ones) and sponsors cannot make direct payments to players (as Salford found out in the case with Tony Puletua). It woud be hard to argue that a company that provides sponsorship to a club is not ‘affiliated’ to the club simply through the commercial agreement between them. It would also be hard to argue that the club had not “organised, convened or authorised” this to happen.
If he’s banned, WADA have more or less made sure he cannot he paid by any organition, or one of their affiliates, during his suspension.
It would be a massive risk for any club to even try it. WADA have the power to ban nations from competitions. To them a rugby league club is small fry.

Quote all the stuff you like, but over in the real world if someone with the money/lawyers etc.. that somebody like Perez has wants to get around legal jargon (for want of a better word) then he will. Wouldn't take much for someone like him to set up a new company without him being listed as a director, loan them some money and then for them to employ ZH. We aren't talking criminal activities here, we are talking about something as simple as finding someone a job in a company not associated with a sports club. If someone like Perez wanted to make it happen and fund it without breaking any of the rules he could.

[nottinghamtiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

Absolutely not. WADA have very stringent rules that suspended players and clubs have to adhere to, and not doing so can have very serious consequences for both. Just to recap the rules:

“During a period of Ineligibility individuals shall not be permitted to participate in any capacity in a Competition, Event or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by:
• the RFL or any body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL;
• any Signatory;
• any club or other body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by, a Signatory or a
Signatory’s member organisation;
• any professional league or any international or national-level Event organisation; or
• any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.”

He can’t be employed by anyone directly associated with any club that is a member of the RFL, nor and organisation affiliated to any club.
The word ‘affiliated’ is a bit murky, but I think a club would be making a big mistake if he worked for a sponsor too. They are deemed to be affiliates for salary-cap purposes (although they are RFL regulations rather than WADA ones) and sponsors cannot make direct payments to players (as Salford found out in the case with Tony Puletua). It woud be hard to argue that a company that provides sponsorship to a club is not ‘affiliated’ to the club simply through the commercial agreement between them. It would also be hard to argue that the club had not “organised, convened or authorised” this to happen.
If he’s banned, WADA have more or less made sure he cannot he paid by any organition, or one of their affiliates, during his suspension.
It would be a massive risk for any club to even try it. WADA have the power to ban nations from competitions. To them a rugby league club is small fry.

If those are the rules, as quoted, there is no reference to either employment or payment. It says 'participate'. If it meant a player cannot be employed or paid then surely it would say that. Using the word participate suggests something else.

Good point. Though I would think (and I might be wrong) that being employed by a club would be deemed as participating in some capacity to activities at the employing club. Employment and participation are generally inextricably linked!
There may be some more detailed regulations etc online, but I can’t imagine any club even risking breaking the rules and trying to argue a technicality with WADA.
I’m also not sure what Cas would gain here. I assume, as with most sports contracts, that there is a clause that he remains under contract but unpaid during any WADA suspension. As such, we lose nothing by retaining his registration until his ban is complete as we won’t be paying him. When his ban ends he will still be under contract with us and then we can decide what to do with him.

[nottinghamtiger]

I don’t think he could be paid by anyone.
During the ban, I don’t believe he can be employed by a club. Paying him immediately makes him an employee, even if the payment is only considered as some kind of ‘retainer’.
No club would be daft enough to risk non-compliance with a WADA ruling.

There are ways around anything as far as hiding numbers are concerned. Perez could employ him privately as his cleaner at home

Absolutely not. WADA have very stringent rules that suspended players and clubs have to adhere to, and not doing so can have very serious consequences for both. Just to recap the rules:

“During a period of Ineligibility individuals shall not be permitted to participate in any capacity in a Competition, Event or other activity (other than authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programmes) organised, convened or authorised by:
• the RFL or any body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by the RFL;
• any Signatory;
• any club or other body that is a member of, or affiliated to, or licensed by, a Signatory or a
Signatory’s member organisation;
• any professional league or any international or national-level Event organisation; or
• any elite or national-level sporting activity funded by a governmental agency.”

He can’t be employed by anyone directly associated with any club that is a member of the RFL, nor and organisation affiliated to any club.
The word ‘affiliated’ is a bit murky, but I think a club would be making a big mistake if he worked for a sponsor too. They are deemed to be affiliates for salary-cap purposes (although they are RFL regulations rather than WADA ones) and sponsors cannot make direct payments to players (as Salford found out in the case with Tony Puletua). It woud be hard to argue that a company that provides sponsorship to a club is not ‘affiliated’ to the club simply through the commercial agreement between them. It would also be hard to argue that the club had not “organised, convened or authorised” this to happen.
If he’s banned, WADA have more or less made sure he cannot he paid by any organition, or one of their affiliates, during his suspension.
It would be a massive risk for any club to even try it. WADA have the power to ban nations from competitions. To them a rugby league club is small fry.

Quote all the stuff you like, but over in the real world if someone with the money/lawyers etc.. that somebody like Perez has wants to get around legal jargon (for want of a better word) then he will. Wouldn't take much for someone like him to set up a new company without him being listed as a director, loan them some money and then for them to employ ZH. We aren't talking criminal activities here, we are talking about something as simple as finding someone a job in a company not associated with a sports club. If someone like Perez wanted to make it happen and fund it without breaking any of the rules he could.

Of course, you are absolutely right. WADA cannot force a player or company to hand over financial information so nobody would ever know.
However, the problem with collusion is that it relies on all parties keeping the secret forever. As soon as things don’t go the player’s way, out pops the truth. It would be a massive risk.
It’s exactly the same as the Salford/Tony Puletua scenario. Nobody would ever have know that another company owned by Koukash was paying him extra money. Until Koukash and Puletua fell out and Puletua decided to expose what had happened. In that case, it was only RFL rules that were broken. In this case, it could be WADA rules and the consequences would be massive for the club concerned.
I find it odd that some people think it’s really that simple to pull the wool over the eyes of WADA. They are a massive organisation with more money (and investigators, lawyers etc) than any club in any sport (almost) and most governing bodies! They also have serious bite. We aren’t talking about points deductions here, but the power to literally ban a club from competition entirely.

[tigerfeat]

Hardly collusion here he had his picture taken at the xmas works do ! ha

[derbystiger]

Hardly collusion here he had his picture taken at the xmas works do ! ha

[nottinghamtiger]

Hardly collusion here he had his picture taken at the xmas works do ! ha

Not banned yet though!

[onetiger]

wish they would get it sorted out soon and stop all this waiting and messing about

[mart0042]

Agreed - If Perez wants to part with some serious cash we should take it. Of course Zak would have to want to go to Toronto but from what I have heard he is open to offers.

Unless we sack him or release him, he isn't open to anything. He's a Cas employee.

I just hope we find out what is gale of and then we can plan and move on. Until then we are stuck

Unless we have given him permission to speak to other people?

Then we will be releasing him from his contract, either for a fee or not.