In desperate need of a clear out

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by Nobody » 23 Apr 2019, 00:34

I don't know how true it is, but I've see a post on Facebook where someone has said the player's are miffed due to Jon Wells dishing out silly fines to them all. Don't shoot the messanger, just repeating what I've read. I was at work when I spotted it but can't seem to find the post know to link in.
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by The Firm » 23 Apr 2019, 01:16

Problem is many who we might consider need replacing have contracts for next year so won’t be going anywhere. For example for me Shenton is a fast fading force. His pace has gone, the sidestep is now slow and predictable and the slight of hand just isn’t as sharp. To have signed him up until the end of 2021 is madness, he’s 33 shortly. Milo is another whose body is letting him down and he isn’t as effective as he once was, Junior at also nearly 33 doesn’t have that block-busting impact anymore, Olly Holmes is beset by injuries which have stopped him reaching his potential so far and they probably always will. And it’s just a personal opinion but i class Milner as one of the most over-rated players in the league. To have given Jamie Ellis a 3 year deal was also lunacy. Oh and the useless Clare is here until the end of 2020 as well! We are burning an awful lot of salary cap there.

The recruitment and in particular the retention has been way off where it needed to be and we are now suffering from it. From the players out of contract Minikin plays wing or off he goes, Rankin can go back from whence he came, Egodo is championship standard, Ditto Maher, Cook can have another year but no more at this point, Clark is worth a deal, whilst the jury is still out on Smith & Aston. We are going to have to be very clever with the cap space we have and hopefully try and persuade one or two who are under contract to depart with the directors sticking their hands in their pockets again.

The problem then is where do the replacements cone from? They can’t all come from the NRL, cost and quota space won’t allow. And the general quality is so low in this country now that anyone who does stand out has a whole host of teams chasing them and their current clubs throw record contracts at them to stay, see Wakey and Fifita. Leeds are throwing money around like confetti, i expect Wigan to do the same to sort their problems and with Toronto all but certain to join them in the big spenders club finding any affordable quality will not be easy, let alone several players.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by flow » 23 Apr 2019, 09:13

The Firm wrote:Problem is many who we might consider need replacing have contracts for next year so won’t be going anywhere. For example for me Shenton is a fast fading force. His pace has gone, the sidestep is now slow and predictable and the slight of hand just isn’t as sharp. To have signed him up until the end of 2021 is madness, he’s 33 shortly. Milo is another whose body is letting him down and he isn’t as effective as he once was, Junior at also nearly 33 doesn’t have that block-busting impact anymore, Olly Holmes is beset by injuries which have stopped him reaching his potential so far and they probably always will. And it’s just a personal opinion but i class Milner as one of the most over-rated players in the league. To have given Jamie Ellis a 3 year deal was also lunacy. Oh and the useless Clare is here until the end of 2020 as well! We are burning an awful lot of salary cap there.

The recruitment and in particular the retention has been way off where it needed to be and we are now suffering from it. From the players out of contract Minikin plays wing or off he goes, Rankin can go back from whence he came, Egodo is championship standard, Ditto Maher, Cook can have another year but no more at this point, Clark is worth a deal, whilst the jury is still out on Smith & Aston. We are going to have to be very clever with the cap space we have and hopefully try and persuade one or two who are under contract to depart with the directors sticking their hands in their pockets again.

The problem then is where do the replacements cone from? They can’t all come from the NRL, cost and quota space won’t allow. And the general quality is so low in this country now that anyone who does stand out has a whole host of teams chasing them and their current clubs throw record contracts at them to stay, see Wakey and Fifita. Leeds are throwing money around like confetti, i expect Wigan to do the same to sort their problems and with Toronto all but certain to join them in the big spenders club finding any affordable quality will not be easy, let alone several players.
one off best post on here think it sums are situation we find are self's very well .There as always being a element off if your face fits even if your not so good you will get looked after clare ashton now smith good examples all got family connections to the club.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by vandeveldtsbaldhead » 23 Apr 2019, 09:42

As every one knows the spine of the team is the key to success. 1, 6,9,13
Only Mcshane fits that spine as a top class player.
Trueman is good, but just lacks that edge on attack, needs a bit more pace.
Milner is not a loose forward, and never will be, he should be a bench player for me.
Matautia promised so much, but has not gone on to show any improvement.

I think this years SL has shown much inconsistency from all sides, (Saints excluded)
We have always played two games over easter, so why are there many excuses for the short turn aroundand poor performances. Whats changed?

This season we are almost half way through, we just need to keep pegging away for a top 5 spot.
Then a clear out and new recruits for next season, I am sure DP is already on withthe case.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by StevieTheTV » 23 Apr 2019, 10:02

Router1977 wrote:This is just not good enough. Yes we have injuries but the team on paper should at least show up.
Clear out ad follows:
Smith. No idea why we signed him.
Minikin. Not good enough
Clare. Out of his depth in super league
Moors. 3 good games against Wigan and Wire away and Leeds at home all in 2017. Done nothing since.
Maher. Should have gone 2 years ago.
Milner. Not good enough.
Shenton past his best.
Full back. No pace and cant break a tackle or come into line.
Ollie Holmes. Not good enough.
Plan A is not great but then no plan B or C when it doesn't work.
Why are people overreacting?

Smith - Good signing, will only get better.
Minikin - Solid player, better on wing than in centre, needs moving back there.
Clare - Squad player at best, probably should let go.
Moors - When on form, great player. Needs to find his form again however i do think hes improved this season.
Maher - Too inconsistent, let go.
Milner - Looks low on confidence to me but can be a game changer when hes interested.
Shenton - Still one of the best defensive centres in the league.
Full Back - P Mat is a good player and safe as houses. Why would anyone want to replace him?
Holmes - I like him but hes starting to miss too many games through no fault of his own, should probable look to get on a pay as you play contract when his current deal ends.

To me, there looks to be something wrong with this group, there doesnt seem to be the togetherness of previous years and we are relying on players (McShane, PMat, Watts) rather than team ethic, frustrating to watch however doesnt take much to fix.
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by old cas lass » 23 Apr 2019, 10:05

Just seen on another social media forum that Jon wells is forever finding players.
I questioned this, still waiting for an answer.
Maybe wells is the problem.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Apr 2019, 10:08

Fineing them for what ??
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by old cas lass » 23 Apr 2019, 10:15

tigerfeat wrote:Fineing them for what ??
Asked him to elaborate, he said he won’t.
Apparently he plays for a club in Wakefield and knows some cas players he talks to.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by takethetwo » 23 Apr 2019, 10:53

One rumour I heard was the players weren’t happy this the new training regimes and schedule . Apperently there flogging themselves through the week and just physically drained by game day . Look at the difference from last couple of years , there were always videos posted of training sessions , enjoying themselves and playing pranks . Just doesn’t happen anymore .

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by 43s flyer » 23 Apr 2019, 10:59

takethetwo wrote:One rumour I heard was the players weren’t happy this the new training regimes and schedule . Apperently there flogging themselves through the week and just physically drained by game day . Look at the difference from last couple of years , there were always videos posted of training sessions , enjoying themselves and playing pranks . Just doesn’t happen anymore .
And it shows the players all season have looked drained.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Apr 2019, 11:01

That's easy resolved stop doing it ...dumbest idea I've heard in a while if that's whats going on
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by nottinghamtiger » 23 Apr 2019, 11:04

tigerfeat wrote:Fineing them for what ??
Tell you what - they need fining for every penalty they concede. All of them - as a team. Every penalty should be a £10 fine for every player in the 17, donated to charity.
It probably wouldn’t stop them conceding penalties, but we could rebuild Notre Dame before the end of the season.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Apr 2019, 11:07

One or two will be in need of financial help if that's whats occurring that is for sure
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by takethetwo » 23 Apr 2019, 11:29

tigerfeat wrote:That's easy resolved stop doing it ...dumbest idea I've heard in a while if that's whats going on
Only what I heard mate. I can understand pre season with the tyres and logs etc for strength training but now we're fully into the season training should just be working on plays and swimming etc. No need for players bodies to be shot to bits before Thursday.

Does any one with more knowledge than me know if we have changed fitness coach or anything like that?

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by Mysterio » 23 Apr 2019, 11:49

Is there any substance to the Wells/Fines rumours?
If we’re trying to drive standards and improve, whether you like wells or not, there has to be accountability from everyone. I’m not sure fining the guys is the best way to achieve this, but, what other options does he have if blokes are not toeing the line? Debate!?
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Apr 2019, 11:58

Mysterio wrote:Is there any substance to the Wells/Fines rumours?
If we’re trying to drive standards and improve, whether you like wells or not, there has to be accountability from everyone. I’m not sure fining the guys is the best way to achieve this, but, what other options does he have if blokes are not toeing the line? Debate!?
No idea on the fines but it looks like something's upset the apple cart sure training is harder maybe a combination of things some of the players don't look happy id say that
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by Mysterio » 23 Apr 2019, 12:04

I really believe the whole club & players know that it’s next year we’ll be ‘back’ and are chugging through this year.

As long as we’re not dragged in to a relegation fight (quite possible) I’d be happy to look to next year / improving the squad.
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by Flat Capper » 23 Apr 2019, 13:17

Mysterio wrote:I really believe the whole club & players know that it’s next year we’ll be ‘back’ and are chugging through this year.

As long as we’re not dragged in to a relegation fight (quite possible) I’d be happy to look to next year / improving the squad.
I agree but think it's all in response to the genuine injury crisis we now have. With all due respect to Maher and Peachy, having them on the bench against the Fat Frogs was never going to end well but what else can we do?

The only genuine issue I see is the poor right side, particularly in defence but I hope this will be bolstered by Lionel Blair. Other than that it really is simply a case of bodies back on the pitch which may not have any impact until next year.
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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by Hepworth7 » 23 Apr 2019, 13:23

flow wrote:
The Firm wrote:Problem is many who we might consider need replacing have contracts for next year so won’t be going anywhere. For example for me Shenton is a fast fading force. His pace has gone, the sidestep is now slow and predictable and the slight of hand just isn’t as sharp. To have signed him up until the end of 2021 is madness, he’s 33 shortly. Milo is another whose body is letting him down and he isn’t as effective as he once was, Junior at also nearly 33 doesn’t have that block-busting impact anymore, Olly Holmes is beset by injuries which have stopped him reaching his potential so far and they probably always will. And it’s just a personal opinion but i class Milner as one of the most over-rated players in the league. To have given Jamie Ellis a 3 year deal was also lunacy. Oh and the useless Clare is here until the end of 2020 as well! We are burning an awful lot of salary cap there.

The recruitment and in particular the retention has been way off where it needed to be and we are now suffering from it. From the players out of contract Minikin plays wing or off he goes, Rankin can go back from whence he came, Egodo is championship standard, Ditto Maher, Cook can have another year but no more at this point, Clark is worth a deal, whilst the jury is still out on Smith & Aston. We are going to have to be very clever with the cap space we have and hopefully try and persuade one or two who are under contract to depart with the directors sticking their hands in their pockets again.

The problem then is where do the replacements cone from? They can’t all come from the NRL, cost and quota space won’t allow. And the general quality is so low in this country now that anyone who does stand out has a whole host of teams chasing them and their current clubs throw record contracts at them to stay, see Wakey and Fifita. Leeds are throwing money around like confetti, i expect Wigan to do the same to sort their problems and with Toronto all but certain to join them in the big spenders club finding any affordable quality will not be easy, let alone several players.
one off best post on here think it sums are situation we find are self's very well .There as always being a element off if your face fits even if your not so good you will get looked after clare ashton now smith good examples all got family connections to the club.
The quota is always going to be an issue,and no we can't keep recruiting from the Nrl,so how about we broaden our recruitment by looking at the talent pool in the other code, there are identifiable candidates in England,France and Italy out there who have the physique and ball playing skills to make the transition and they would also not take up as much cap space. Yeah it's risky but there are plenty of former League players and coaches currently working in Union who would able to target the best prospects and might welcome a short term consultants role.

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Re: In desperate need of a clear out

Post by mart0042 » 24 Apr 2019, 09:54

Hepworth7 wrote:
flow wrote:
The Firm wrote:Problem is many who we might consider need replacing have contracts for next year so won’t be going anywhere. For example for me Shenton is a fast fading force. His pace has gone, the sidestep is now slow and predictable and the slight of hand just isn’t as sharp. To have signed him up until the end of 2021 is madness, he’s 33 shortly. Milo is another whose body is letting him down and he isn’t as effective as he once was, Junior at also nearly 33 doesn’t have that block-busting impact anymore, Olly Holmes is beset by injuries which have stopped him reaching his potential so far and they probably always will. And it’s just a personal opinion but i class Milner as one of the most over-rated players in the league. To have given Jamie Ellis a 3 year deal was also lunacy. Oh and the useless Clare is here until the end of 2020 as well! We are burning an awful lot of salary cap there.

The recruitment and in particular the retention has been way off where it needed to be and we are now suffering from it. From the players out of contract Minikin plays wing or off he goes, Rankin can go back from whence he came, Egodo is championship standard, Ditto Maher, Cook can have another year but no more at this point, Clark is worth a deal, whilst the jury is still out on Smith & Aston. We are going to have to be very clever with the cap space we have and hopefully try and persuade one or two who are under contract to depart with the directors sticking their hands in their pockets again.

The problem then is where do the replacements cone from? They can’t all come from the NRL, cost and quota space won’t allow. And the general quality is so low in this country now that anyone who does stand out has a whole host of teams chasing them and their current clubs throw record contracts at them to stay, see Wakey and Fifita. Leeds are throwing money around like confetti, i expect Wigan to do the same to sort their problems and with Toronto all but certain to join them in the big spenders club finding any affordable quality will not be easy, let alone several players.
one off best post on here think it sums are situation we find are self's very well .There as always being a element off if your face fits even if your not so good you will get looked after clare ashton now smith good examples all got family connections to the club.
The quota is always going to be an issue,and no we can't keep recruiting from the Nrl,so how about we broaden our recruitment by looking at the talent pool in the other code, there are identifiable candidates in England,France and Italy out there who have the physique and ball playing skills to make the transition and they would also not take up as much cap space. Yeah it's risky but there are plenty of former League players and coaches currently working in Union who would able to target the best prospects and might welcome a short term consultants role.
Is difficult to gain players from ru because of their wages. Average championship players at carnegie are in 70k I've been told. And the team is poor. Not a viable option unless we have a rich owner willing to spend big.

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