Simply not good enough

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 12:15

tigerfeat wrote:Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders
"He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard"

No he hasn't. He had a choice in the off season and could of brought people in but he (or somebody) choose not to and new were paying the price. Like 2018 with the FB role.

These are the questions that should be been asked.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 24 Mar 2019, 12:20

We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 12:33

tigerfeat wrote:We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got
Who knows but one things for sure he hasn't be asked to be a miracle worker as you suggested.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 24 Mar 2019, 12:34

And I'm not saying Powell can do no wrong im sure he expected minikin to do a better job than he as but for whatever reason we went into a season two good players short hence were now trying all we can to bring at least one good outside back in
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Mysterio » 24 Mar 2019, 12:57

Hudds I think you speak out of order calling out Milner and saying even when he manages a decent hit we get penalised. Players go through phases of form, just like posters like you with that particular comment.

Your comments In terms of Hardaker not making a huge difference defensively and it not mattering who the full back is really is beyond comprehension.

Perhaps saints wouldn’t have got to 10m from our line so often had Zak been organising from the back, and would have been 30m further back; controlled.

The try saving tackle he made the other night was one of the very best I’ve ever seen too, and that was made over the line, following a line break. If he was available now Daryl would have him, no doubt about it, and it would make a difference.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 13:09

tigerfeat wrote:And I'm not saying Powell can do no wrong im sure he expected minikin to do a better job than he as but for whatever reason we went into a season two good players short hence were now trying all we can to bring at least one good outside back in
Because DP thought Minikin and Clare were good enough and earned there chance. Bit like he thought Roberts would make a good FB. Wrong on all 3 accounts. So now were in trouble again.. Or it could be he knew they were not what we really wanted but we have spent up offering silly wages again or signing players who are are waste of time (Aston, Maher) so he had no choice.

Hence the reason we got shut of Roberts before the season is out. The only reason we would even do that is to replace him with a back.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by gateman » 25 Mar 2019, 09:05

I have no doubt the club are looking out for a outside back like us they will see we are lacking in that department, but its no good just going out and signing some one, top class players are hard to come by clubs only release them when they have a fall out, if we signed a player that did not shine he would be in the firing line move over Massey Milner and Clare

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by flow » 25 Mar 2019, 09:30

HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
hudds you some times post rubbish saying zak made no difference we have still not recovered from losing him really made that much difference to back line in attack and defence, was like an extra centre in attack and organised the line for defence. Plus we were getting a lot bigger attendances to watch exciting rugby we played like saints are playing now. And to say rankin is half decent oh dear boy what games you being watching giants must be very happy with swap . Why you a defending clare is not up to standard Bradford and York champ teams dint want him . Your right about minikin gone backwards foster never be a centre like .

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 10:00

I find some of the above comments quite amusing I don't think we should have resigned Clare like we shouldn't have signed Ellis or Aston but every game I've seen clare play since we signed him he's played to his standard or above
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 10:03

Apart from the recent game at wire where Powell took him off
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Mysterio » 25 Mar 2019, 11:58

flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
hudds you some times post rubbish saying zak made no difference we have still not recovered from losing him really made that much difference to back line in attack and defence, was like an extra centre in attack and organised the line for defence. Plus we were getting a lot bigger attendances to watch exciting rugby we played like saints are playing now. And to say rankin is half decent oh dear boy what games you being watching giants must be very happy with swap . Why you a defending clare is not up to standard Bradford and York champ teams dint want him . Your right about minikin gone backwards foster never be a centre like .
Absolutely spot on flow, especially the extra man, he had it off to a tee after only a few weeks and that was a massive concern for me having had it in Dorn. Dorn was tremendous attacking, but look how poor defensively he was -Zak highlighted that change even more and scored worldies too.

Your point about us playing in 2017 like Saints do now is again absolutely bang on!

At the end of 2017 I did say i had a little fear we’d make the same mistakes as in 1994;95 & 1999/00 seasons when we were just a couple of high quality players away from greatness. Because of the current set up in the board room and coaching staff I genuinely thought that we’d push on.

I even suggested selling mcmeeken or Holmes, or Roberts, or picking someone who may well be at their maximum value, if it meant clearing that extra space and bringing monies in for fees and salary cap. I was thinking outside of the box about how we may well be able to take the extra steps needed. We effectively cocked it up tbf and even Daryl takes an element of learning experiences from that.

We’re still thereabouts. This isn’t likelt to be our year, but who knows! On our day we can beat anyone including saints if we have a worldy.

I think we’re in a position throughout the year to really concentrate on 2020. If I was Daryl Jon the board, I’d seriously be going all out to leave no stone unturned in every aspect of being able to reach the level of the wire and saints. Jon wells in particular is the man I’ll be seeing what he does over the next few months up until the start of next season in particular.

I just feel we’re at a crossroads right now. I so want us to push on again. It’s never the finished article, but we can and will get to the standards we all crave if we stay together, stay calm but make tough decisions.

In terms of Rankin, there’s definitely a player in there, but sadly his defence is worse than Ellis’. I lose a lot of respect for a player who doesn’t seem to want to learn how to tackle properly - it’s not hard to learn how to tackle properly, it really isn’t.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 12:03

Good post think you pretty much nailed it there ...
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Frankas » 25 Mar 2019, 13:39

If we had sold McMeeken , or Homes the fans would have gone mad, and accused the club of going back to a selling club like we use to be. Has for Zak, he was a great player for us, but he destroyed the clubs spirit, by taking drugs, and getting banned a few days before our first ever grand final. He cost Cas that game .

We have never had it has good as we have in the last few years, and at the moment we aren't at our best, but we are the third best team in SL, winning 5 and loosing 2. Not too shabby for a team who started the season without 3 of our first choice halfbacks, and another 3 or 4 of our first choice 17.

In a few years we have become a club from the brink of oblivion, to one of the best teams in SL.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 25 Mar 2019, 13:40

flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
hudds you some times post rubbish saying zak made no difference we have still not recovered from losing him really made that much difference to back line in attack and defence, was like an extra centre in attack and organised the line for defence. Plus we were getting a lot bigger attendances to watch exciting rugby we played like saints are playing now. And to say rankin is half decent oh dear boy what games you being watching giants must be very happy with swap . Why you a defending clare is not up to standard Bradford and York champ teams dint want him . Your right about minikin gone backwards foster never be a centre like .

Flow, I think you need to learn basic comprehension. I never said "Zak made no difference", I said "losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend." It doesn't. Defence comes from attitude and I've always said, if the 12 men in front of your full-back are strong enough then a full-back's job becomes so much easier.

Zak wouldn't have made a difference in us missing 45 tackles and several one on ones on our own line against Saints. It's ridiculous to assume he would.

Attendances are fluid. How many Sunday games did we have in 2017 versus this year when we have something like 14/17 games on TV?

Rankin is half-decent and he did have a decent game versus Saints (which is actually what I said) - he wasn't the worst by any stretch of imagination. He's best when he's running at defences and making them think. The ball has to go right for him to do that though. As for his defence, all half-backs have struggles in this area. Ben Roberts was probably one half-back that didn't and even Truey is stepping up to the plate now. Half-backs have been known as turnstiles for yonks.

As for Clare, it would help if you bothered to research facts. He was on loan at York and he left Bradford due to their financial issues instead signing for Leigh for the security it provided.
Last edited by HuddsTigers on 25 Mar 2019, 13:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by cogito ergo sum » 25 Mar 2019, 13:41

Frankas wrote:If we had sold McMeeken , or Homes the fans would have gone mad, and accused the club of going back to a selling club like we use to be. Has for Zak, he was a great player for us, but he destroyed the clubs spirit, by taking drugs, and getting banned a few days before our first ever grand final. He cost Cas that game .

We have never had it has good as we have in the last few years, and at the moment we aren't at our best, but we are the third best team in SL, winning 5 and loosing 2. Not too shabby for a team who started the season without 3 of our first choice halfbacks, and another 3 or 4 of our first choice 17.

In a few years we have become a club from the brink of oblivion, to one of the best teams in SL.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 25 Mar 2019, 13:45

For me, we are a centre and prop forward of being a top of the table side. Get 2 people for those positions and I can see us winning something.

I'd take a winger as well but maybe with a better centre inside, Minikin and/or Clare may be able to do their own job more effectively.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 13:49

Frankas wrote:If we had sold McMeeken , or Homes the fans would have gone mad, and accused the club of going back to a selling club like we use to be. Has for Zak, he was a great player for us, but he destroyed the clubs spirit, by taking drugs, and getting banned a few days before our first ever grand final. He cost Cas that game .

We have never had it has good as we have in the last few years, and at the moment we aren't at our best, but we are the third best team in SL, winning 5 and loosing 2. Not too shabby for a team who started the season without 3 of our first choice halfbacks, and another 3 or 4 of our first choice 17.

In a few years we have become a club from the brink of oblivion, to one of the best teams in SL.
Nonsense to say we lost the grand final because of a player that never played yes he dropped us in it but we were still 8 points favourites to win the game we'd beaten leeds 8 or 9 names on the trot most of them hammerings the players that turned out had more than enough in there locker to beat leeds that day
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 25 Mar 2019, 13:57

I agree with the above. There are several problems in the final but full-back is only a small part.

* Wet conditions - we tried to play adventurously in the conditions and it backfired
* Our forwards - they failed to keep hold of the ball consistently turning the ball over
* Wingers - failed to deal with kicks from Leeds and got beat in the air leading to some soft tries

Zak doing what he did disrupted training and the build up to it but if you don't do the basics right, everything else is just an added effect.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Frankas » 25 Mar 2019, 13:59

Not nonsense at all, the team was guttered, the same thing happened to us a few years before that when a player thought it was OK to mess about with another players wife, we wen't to Catalan, and got hammered, and it lost us the LLS, So yes we were a shadow of the team what had got us to the final.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 25 Mar 2019, 14:21

Mysterio wrote:
flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
hudds you some times post rubbish saying zak made no difference we have still not recovered from losing him really made that much difference to back line in attack and defence, was like an extra centre in attack and organised the line for defence. Plus we were getting a lot bigger attendances to watch exciting rugby we played like saints are playing now. And to say rankin is half decent oh dear boy what games you being watching giants must be very happy with swap . Why you a defending clare is not up to standard Bradford and York champ teams dint want him . Your right about minikin gone backwards foster never be a centre like .
Absolutely spot on flow, especially the extra man, he had it off to a tee after only a few weeks and that was a massive concern for me having had it in Dorn. Dorn was tremendous attacking, but look how poor defensively he was -Zak highlighted that change even more and scored worldies too.

Your point about us playing in 2017 like Saints do now is again absolutely bang on!

At the end of 2017 I did say i had a little fear we’d make the same mistakes as in 1994;95 & 1999/00 seasons when we were just a couple of high quality players away from greatness. Because of the current set up in the board room and coaching staff I genuinely thought that we’d push on.

I even suggested selling mcmeeken or Holmes, or Roberts, or picking someone who may well be at their maximum value, if it meant clearing that extra space and bringing monies in for fees and salary cap. I was thinking outside of the box about how we may well be able to take the extra steps needed. We effectively cocked it up tbf and even Daryl takes an element of learning experiences from that.

We’re still thereabouts. This isn’t likelt to be our year, but who knows! On our day we can beat anyone including saints if we have a worldy.

I think we’re in a position throughout the year to really concentrate on 2020. If I was Daryl Jon the board, I’d seriously be going all out to leave no stone unturned in every aspect of being able to reach the level of the wire and saints. Jon wells in particular is the man I’ll be seeing what he does over the next few months up until the start of next season in particular.

I just feel we’re at a crossroads right now. I so want us to push on again. It’s never the finished article, but we can and will get to the standards we all crave if we stay together, stay calm but make tough decisions.

In terms of Rankin, there’s definitely a player in there, but sadly his defence is worse than Ellis’. I lose a lot of respect for a player who doesn’t seem to want to learn how to tackle properly - it’s not hard to learn how to tackle properly, it really isn’t.
Few things

1. Seen this a few times now. People going on about 2020 being a big year. Why is that then. The team will be 95% the same as now. Some fringe players will go.

2. Zak in the team no doubt we were better, alot. But now he is not that doesnt stop people from being able to tackle which most of the team can no longer do.

3. Rankin is doing ok for me. Better than ellis.

4. We dont need 6 back rowers. 2 need to go and money used elsewhere

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