Simply not good enough

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 23 Mar 2019, 13:50

derbystiger wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.
Come on Hudds, you can’t really believe that it makes no difference? Yes, we had better players on the right, but Zak organised everything from the back. He was constantly marshalling his players and putting them where they needed to be. He did make a difference.
Are we really saying Matautia isn’t doing the same? Our ability to defend isn’t from the opposition 30m line, it’s on our own line 10m out. So many soft tries are coming from close to us. No full back could save them.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by lurcher » 23 Mar 2019, 16:36

Router1977 wrote:With tonights game now confined to the history books, so what have we learnt....
1) The lack of big game mentality and mind set still exists.
2) Man for man not as good as the opposition.
3) The spine of the team not at the same level of the opposition and the 2017 squad.
4) The winning formula and togetherness that was the 2017 squad is not evident.
5) Recruitment in key positions poor when previous quality players have left the club.
6) We have not hammered a team since Leeds in 2017 at home.
7) Saints where white hot tonight and Cas did not turn up so always a mismatch.

On this performance it seems we are still missing the right formula. Has winning 4 out of 4 hidden bigger flaws in our setup which was highlighted tonight......

When did our half backs last make a clean break and score from it?
Is Peanut any better than Turner? I agree that he is steady under the high ball but does he do enough in the attacking line......

The golden ticket was Zak. He set the line and dictated the play along with Gale which set the platform for the forwards to make the yards.

Did Powell really want to loose Zak? If the truth is known I think he would have given him one last chance after serving his ban. Its amazing that since we have not had Zak in our line up, we have struggled to be ruthless in attack and defence.

I know that nothing is won in March but we said that last year and look what happened in the Semi Final......

Whatever the answer, then it needs fixing up and fast.
if he gave him one more chance then zac would have used up that chance with the drink driving offence and DP would have looked stupid.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by the machine » 23 Mar 2019, 18:08

fords wrote:
RonnieGibbs'forearm wrote:When you hear the rumours of the salaries of some of directors it makes no wonder we are not in a position to pay for top class players. If we want to compete for silverware we must have a replacement for Gale and a centre.
Roberts money should be spent on Hastings (23). Him and trueman (19) were set for many years to come.

Get rid of Maher, Ellis, Aston, Egodo and bring in a centre and a winger if possible or even just a top class winger (have we signed Lineham ?. Could look something like

Turner
Lineham
PM
Shenton
Eden
Hastings
Trueman
No chance of Hastings, he'll be back in NRL soon enough
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Easy Tiger 2 » 23 Mar 2019, 21:59

HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
How the hell can losing one of the best defensive full backs I’ve ever seen not make a difference to how we defend?!

I agree having Hardaker at full back would have made no difference last night as they were all poor to a man but his organisation and tackling would have been an improvement

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 23 Mar 2019, 22:32

I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Mar 2019, 23:00

Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by ERG2012 » 24 Mar 2019, 09:34

HuddsTigers wrote:I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.
All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by cogito ergo sum » 24 Mar 2019, 09:44

tigerfeat wrote:Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders
Saints tried to sign Matautia, they were interested in Minikim and Meeks...

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by HuddsTigers » 24 Mar 2019, 11:06

ERG2012 wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.
All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......
Let’s stick Junior Moors at centre then :lol:
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by old cas lass » 24 Mar 2019, 11:23

HuddsTigers wrote:
ERG2012 wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.
All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......
Let’s stick Junior Moors at centre then :lol:
Now there a thought. :D

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 12:15

tigerfeat wrote:Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders
"He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard"

No he hasn't. He had a choice in the off season and could of brought people in but he (or somebody) choose not to and new were paying the price. Like 2018 with the FB role.

These are the questions that should be been asked.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 24 Mar 2019, 12:20

We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 12:33

tigerfeat wrote:We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got
Who knows but one things for sure he hasn't be asked to be a miracle worker as you suggested.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 24 Mar 2019, 12:34

And I'm not saying Powell can do no wrong im sure he expected minikin to do a better job than he as but for whatever reason we went into a season two good players short hence were now trying all we can to bring at least one good outside back in
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Mysterio » 24 Mar 2019, 12:57

Hudds I think you speak out of order calling out Milner and saying even when he manages a decent hit we get penalised. Players go through phases of form, just like posters like you with that particular comment.

Your comments In terms of Hardaker not making a huge difference defensively and it not mattering who the full back is really is beyond comprehension.

Perhaps saints wouldn’t have got to 10m from our line so often had Zak been organising from the back, and would have been 30m further back; controlled.

The try saving tackle he made the other night was one of the very best I’ve ever seen too, and that was made over the line, following a line break. If he was available now Daryl would have him, no doubt about it, and it would make a difference.
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by fords » 24 Mar 2019, 13:09

tigerfeat wrote:And I'm not saying Powell can do no wrong im sure he expected minikin to do a better job than he as but for whatever reason we went into a season two good players short hence were now trying all we can to bring at least one good outside back in
Because DP thought Minikin and Clare were good enough and earned there chance. Bit like he thought Roberts would make a good FB. Wrong on all 3 accounts. So now were in trouble again.. Or it could be he knew they were not what we really wanted but we have spent up offering silly wages again or signing players who are are waste of time (Aston, Maher) so he had no choice.

Hence the reason we got shut of Roberts before the season is out. The only reason we would even do that is to replace him with a back.

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by gateman » 25 Mar 2019, 09:05

I have no doubt the club are looking out for a outside back like us they will see we are lacking in that department, but its no good just going out and signing some one, top class players are hard to come by clubs only release them when they have a fall out, if we signed a player that did not shine he would be in the firing line move over Massey Milner and Clare

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by flow » 25 Mar 2019, 09:30

HuddsTigers wrote:Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.
hudds you some times post rubbish saying zak made no difference we have still not recovered from losing him really made that much difference to back line in attack and defence, was like an extra centre in attack and organised the line for defence. Plus we were getting a lot bigger attendances to watch exciting rugby we played like saints are playing now. And to say rankin is half decent oh dear boy what games you being watching giants must be very happy with swap . Why you a defending clare is not up to standard Bradford and York champ teams dint want him . Your right about minikin gone backwards foster never be a centre like .

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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 10:00

I find some of the above comments quite amusing I don't think we should have resigned Clare like we shouldn't have signed Ellis or Aston but every game I've seen clare play since we signed him he's played to his standard or above
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tigerfeat » 25 Mar 2019, 10:03

Apart from the recent game at wire where Powell took him off
The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have
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