Big game mentality...

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SuffolkTiger
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Big game mentality...

Post by SuffolkTiger » 21 Jul 2018, 10:34

Looking at the posts from last night, it's clear that many of us are very disappointed after our latest performance. It casts serious doubt over what we can actually achieve for the rest of the season.

Although the last 4 seasons have been some of the best in my time as a supporter of our club, we have also shown a disappointing mental approach in some big games. The squad seem to freeze on the park and operate like a group strangers. This seems to happen where a team have either a clear game plan and stick rigidly to it or we come up against a physical, robust and enthusiastic side who intimidate us. Hull are a good example of this over the last few years.

Much as I admire him, Michael Shenton displayed the effects of this last night. He looked rattled and, at times, totally overwhelmed by what was going on. Like an inexperienced 17 year old having a nightmare on debut.

There have been question marks raised before over DP's ability to get his teams in the right mind set for big games - especially finals. Is there something in that?

What also didn't look appropriate to me last night was that, as the players were shaking hands straight after the final hooter, 3 or 4 Cas players were smiling/laughing with the opposition. Much as a defeat isn't the end of the world, that body language looked wrong immediately after what was a key game to win.

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by fords » 21 Jul 2018, 11:15

SuffolkTiger wrote:Looking at the posts from last night, it's clear that many of us are very disappointed after our latest performance. It casts serious doubt over what we can actually achieve for the rest of the season.

Although the last 4 seasons have been some of the best in my time as a supporter of our club, we have also shown a disappointing mental approach in some big games. The squad seem to freeze on the park and operate like a group strangers. This seems to happen where a team have either a clear game plan and stick rigidly to it or we come up against a physical, robust and enthusiastic side who intimidate us. Hull are a good example of this over the last few years.

Much as I admire him, Michael Shenton displayed the effects of this last night. He looked rattled and, at times, totally overwhelmed by what was going on. Like an inexperienced 17 year old having a nightmare on debut.

There have been question marks raised before over DP's ability to get his teams in the right mind set for big games - especially finals. Is there something in that?

What also didn't look appropriate to me last night was that, as the players were shaking hands straight after the final hooter, 3 or 4 Cas players were smiling/laughing with the opposition. Much as a defeat isn't the end of the world, that body language looked wrong immediately after what was a key game to win.

There have been question marks raised before over DP's ability to get his teams in the right mind set for big games - especially finals. Is there something in that?

Yes , look at his record. In the big games its crap.

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by the happy hooker9 » 21 Jul 2018, 11:17

This is one of the biggest faults in the make up of Castleford Tigers. We have as long as I have supported them have not had the big game mentality. This was eradicated when Dereck Rocky Turner was coach who instilled the will to win in big games, I'm certain if he had been coach in the match at Catalans when a win would have given us LLS that this would have happened. I never forget his face at half time at Wembley when we played poorly, it was like thunder, needless to say this was put right in the second half.
There's been numerous occasions in big games when we've not had the 'nous' to turn a crutial game in our favour. I suggest people read 'Big Den' to understand this, ie during a game v's Leeds Dennis gave an almighty whack to his lifelong friend and ex-Hunslet mate Kenny Eyre....who stammered..." but Den we're mates ...to which Big D replied ...." .....I Hate Leeds"
This mentality needs to be re-enforced in all Cas teams that on the park the winning outcome is all that matters IF we want to be winners....................................NOBODY REMEMBERS LOSERS

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by CasRus » 21 Jul 2018, 11:19

This was like deja vous in watching England's football team against Croatia where players were like statues with no off ball movement compared to their rivals and absolutely no invention - same happened last night with Cas ! Off ball movement and support for forwards offload is vital in giving options and having opposition players having to be alert - there was none of this last night from Cas so made their job dead easy l

You might be right about having a big game mentality instilled into the players as being an issue but that performance was like watching them in Catalans a couple of weeks ago !

After the first 10 minutes where they looked pretty good, there was then no movement in defence to move swiftly up on them so allowing them to hit our defence line with more pace and chances to offload with supporting players buzzing around and in attack, there was absolutely no invention and structure which comes down to the half backs and players willing to support the ball carrier. They looked lost in translation ! Giants forwards were coming onto the ball whereas ours were most times stood receiving the ball and then set off apart from Watts late on coming onto the ball and making really good ground. Mitch Clark and Cook mostly always try to come onto the ball at pace and which makes all the difference when it happens.

Ollie Holmes worries me as he had another dire game similar to Catalans away although I could mention most of the players who were second rate in comparison to opposition players. This performance was like watching a championship side rather than SL ! I maybe wrong but I think DP in his interview alluded to players needing to soul search and I think he is now staring to get frustrated with certain players - watch out for some unexpected personnel changes coming at the end of the season - some are already looking obvious like for example Webbo is starting to look tired, Shenton is slowing down also.

Another Thing - You see so many wingers and centres getting sucked inside where a long ball over the top cuts them out and becomes a walk in try - This infuriates me all the time - MARK YOUR OPPOSITE MAN and trust the cover coming across can nail the inner opposition players for pity's (milder form of the f word !) sake !

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 21 Jul 2018, 11:48

the happy hooker9 wrote:This is one of the biggest faults in the make up of Castleford Tigers. We have as long as I have supported them have not had the big game mentality. This was eradicated when Dereck Rocky Turner was coach who instilled the will to win in big games, I'm certain if he had been coach in the match at Catalans when a win would have given us LLS that this would have happened. I never forget his face at half time at Wembley when we played poorly, it was like thunder, needless to say this was put right in the second half.
There's been numerous occasions in big games when we've not had the 'nous' to turn a crutial game in our favour. I suggest people read 'Big Den' to understand this, ie during a game v's Leeds Dennis gave an almighty whack to his lifelong friend and ex-Hunslet mate Kenny Eyre....who stammered..." but Den we're mates ...to which Big D replied ...." .....I Hate Leeds"
This mentality needs to be re-enforced in all Cas teams that on the park the winning outcome is all that matters IF we want to be winners....................................NOBODY REMEMBERS LOSERS
We do at Cas. People were always going on about the 1999 team which won nothing as opposed to the 2017 team which won a trophy for topping the league but are seen as failures for not winning at Old Trafford. Raised expectations I suppose.

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by Gomersal Tiger » 21 Jul 2018, 19:13

Lack of leadership on the pitch in my view.

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by Burratha » 22 Jul 2018, 09:49

Gomersal Tiger wrote:Lack of leadership on the pitch in my view.
Agree. Your captain needs to be in the mix, really. Shenton isn't vocal enough, and being on the fringes makes it all the more of an issue. Give it to Gale or McShane, IMHO

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by tigerfeat » 22 Jul 2018, 10:34

I agree with what was put above ive tried to suggest that in other posts champion teams turn things around in adversity body language remains good the coach always knows the right thing to say even if you do go down
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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by laner » 22 Jul 2018, 11:10

Apart from the injuries the club has had to contend with there is weaknesses within the three quarters and has been for far to long the fans can see it so why can’t the coaching team see it Shenton & Webster have been great for the club over the years but the years are taking its toll sorry it’s time to replace at this time greater strength and pace is required in those positions hope the club are of the same opinion

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by alftupper » 22 Jul 2018, 11:43

laner wrote:Shenton & Webster have been great for the club over the years but the years are taking its toll sorry it’s time to replace at this time greater strength and pace is required in those positions
I’ve been saying this all season, our back line needs a complete overhaul. As a club we seem to have a problem knowing when to get rid of players at the right time and end up keeping them too long, I give Lynch as an example who was poor and clearly shot in his last season. Webster has already gone a season too long in my opinion and I would off load Shenton as the signs aren’t good from him either. There should be no room for sentiment

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by fords » 22 Jul 2018, 13:56

alftupper wrote:
laner wrote:Shenton & Webster have been great for the club over the years but the years are taking its toll sorry it’s time to replace at this time greater strength and pace is required in those positions
I’ve been saying this all season, our back line needs a complete overhaul. As a club we seem to have a problem knowing when to get rid of players at the right time and end up keeping them too long, I give Lynch as an example who was poor and clearly shot in his last season. Webster has already gone a season too long in my opinion and I would off load Shenton as the signs aren’t good from him either. There should be no room for sentiment
Webbo defo needs to hang up the boots this year. Been a great servant but we need a new centre for 2019

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by classysupercas3 » 22 Jul 2018, 14:11

fords wrote:
alftupper wrote:
laner wrote:Shenton & Webster have been great for the club over the years but the years are taking its toll sorry it’s time to replace at this time greater strength and pace is required in those positions
I’ve been saying this all season, our back line needs a complete overhaul. As a club we seem to have a problem knowing when to get rid of players at the right time and end up keeping them too long, I give Lynch as an example who was poor and clearly shot in his last season. Webster has already gone a season too long in my opinion and I would off load Shenton as the signs aren’t good from him either. There should be no room for sentiment
Webbo defo needs to hang up the boots this year. Been a great servant but we need a new centre for 2019
Yes he does pal.he his on the floor more times than he his stood up!!! Yes brilliant servant Ro club but we need young fast blood bow

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by tigerfeat » 23 Jul 2018, 08:50

Edens a player we miss big time when he's not playing I wouldn't think of criticising him when he's flying through the air and dosnt manage to ground it most times he does
Big game mentality Suffolk tiger said and I agree with him champion teams don't sulk when there up against it they find a way of overcoming
Fantastic what we've achieved these last four years no reason we can't win the grand final in the years ahead id like to see you beat us over are dead body's attitude every minute no matter what the circumstance
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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by terminaldecline » 23 Jul 2018, 11:39

is huddersfield at home, 22 matches into a 30 game season, now considered a 'Big Game'?
(especially in a season where you can throw a hat over 2nd, 3rd and 4th and there's a massive gap to 5th)

If that's a 'big game' then every game is... but to me this was only really a big game for an in form Hudds team (to escape the bottom 4)

I know we could have moved up to 2nd - but at this stage it doesn't really matter, we're assured of 4 home and 3 away in the super 8s, so I just think some perspective on what constitutes a big game

this is not taking away from the larger points you make - and we were terrible on Friday, but that to me was just an off week against a team that was up for it

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by classysupercas3 » 23 Jul 2018, 12:01

alftupper wrote:
laner wrote:Shenton & Webster have been great for the club over the years but the years are taking its toll sorry it’s time to replace at this time greater strength and pace is required in those positions
I’ve been saying this all season, our back line needs a complete overhaul. As a club we seem to have a problem knowing when to get rid of players at the right time and end up keeping them too long, I give Lynch as an example who was poor and clearly shot in his last season. Webster has already gone a season too long in my opinion and I would off load Shenton as the signs aren’t good from him either. There should be no room for sentiment
I agree signs been there from end of last season. Time to offload and recruit or risk fans dwindling even more

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by Nu Shooze » 23 Jul 2018, 12:31

terminaldecline wrote:is huddersfield at home, 22 matches into a 30 game season, now considered a 'Big Game'?
(especially in a season where you can throw a hat over 2nd, 3rd and 4th and there's a massive gap to 5th)

If that's a 'big game' then every game is... but to me this was only really a big game for an in form Hudds team (to escape the bottom 4)

I know we could have moved up to 2nd - but at this stage it doesn't really matter, we're assured of 4 home and 3 away in the super 8s, so I just think some perspective on what constitutes a big game

this is not taking away from the larger points you make - and we were terrible on Friday, but that to me was just an off week against a team that was up for it
This.

I saw several posts over the weekend, from fans of other teams, saying how we’d bottled another big game. What ‘big’ game was that exactly? Seems our big games are now determined by fans from other clubs, probably after we’ve lost, so they can rattle on about us losing another. :roll:

Friday’s game was no bigger than Salford the week before or Widnes this Sunday.

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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by Flat Capper » 23 Jul 2018, 12:33

The question of 'big game mentality' is an interesting one when it comes to teams coached by Daryl Powell. I am regularly reminded by my Capper neighbors that is was a theme running through the Fev team whilst DP was in charge there.

Now I didn't regard Fridays game as a big game par sae but it was one we should have been looking to complete the game plan to the letter and carry some momentum in to the Super 8's.
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Re: Big game mentality...

Post by fords » 23 Jul 2018, 12:45

Nu Shooze wrote:
terminaldecline wrote:is huddersfield at home, 22 matches into a 30 game season, now considered a 'Big Game'?
(especially in a season where you can throw a hat over 2nd, 3rd and 4th and there's a massive gap to 5th)

If that's a 'big game' then every game is... but to me this was only really a big game for an in form Hudds team (to escape the bottom 4)

I know we could have moved up to 2nd - but at this stage it doesn't really matter, we're assured of 4 home and 3 away in the super 8s, so I just think some perspective on what constitutes a big game

this is not taking away from the larger points you make - and we were terrible on Friday, but that to me was just an off week against a team that was up for it
This.

I saw several posts over the weekend, from fans of other teams, saying how we’d bottled another big game. What ‘big’ game was that exactly? Seems our big games are now determined by fans from other clubs, probably after we’ve lost, so they can rattle on about us losing another. :roll:

Friday’s game was no bigger than Salford the week before or Widnes this Sunday.
Certainly puts more pressure on winning at Widnes now though, that's going to be seen as our easiest game of the 8 left.

Nobody is going to want to finish 4th and face Saints away. So you could say they are all big games in trying to grab the 2nd spot.

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