2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

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CasRus
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2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by CasRus » 22 Jan 2018, 13:48

Guys,

Having analysed the squad this year my belief is that this will go even better than last year having much more strength in depth in the forwards with the additions of Clark, Green and Wardle. I think so much so that I am betting that Cas will sweep the board with LLS,GF and CC. It is a great shame that Zak won't feature as this bet would be even more secure but still think we have the personnel to sweep up with. Lo will add some fire power also.

The forward line up are looking immense to me as hard grafting hard working and it's not all about size.

The only thing that concerns me is if some of the players may get frustrated in not regularly featuring as there is a lot of competition for the play spots now and hope they don't start to look elsewhere for regular play. I can't see much weakness in any player's credentials and, knowing preditor clubs, they may be making offers later in the season for disgruntled players if there are any.

DP will have the personnel finely tuned as a team and things like what happened in the GF will be a thing of the past - One thing I Hope he's got the players thinking and practising on is to run back to cover any loose balls that come off the full back challenge from high kicks (which led to the easy unchallenged run in try from Maguire - of all people !!)

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by Oldcasman » 22 Jan 2018, 14:32

A bit ambitious saying we will win everything this season,and you certainly have more confidence in the nl1 players we have signed than me just hope I'm proved wrong but I don't think I will be.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by takethetwo » 22 Jan 2018, 16:18

Green will definitely play better than Lynchy last season . The rest im not so sure .

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by SeniorMoors » 22 Jan 2018, 17:01

If we had Zak I think we'd be clear favourites for the lot. Even without him I think the squad is stronger than last year, and will certainly be there or thereabouts when the trophies are dished out.

DP may have unearthed another diamond in Green, while Lo looks a very good addition. Ellis will improve our kicking game close to the opposition line, while Wardle adds plenty of size. The jury's still out on Clark. Clare and Aston are squad players for me. Also, Trueman should get some game time this season. He already looks a hell of a talent.

We should be in the mix for all the silverware. Offer me one and I'd take it now, even if it's LLS again. Personally I think we'll be top two in the league. CC depends on a favourable draw - no doubt no-one will want to visit The Jungle.

Like just about everyone else, I'm still a little concerned about full back. Elsewhere, though, I think we're stronger than 2017.

The mindset will need to be different this season. Teams will come after us, so we have to adapt to being a big scalp for other clubs. If we can deal with it mentally and stay relatively injury-free, I think we're in for another memorable year.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by cogito ergo sum » 22 Jan 2018, 17:02

You have to measure our recruitment in comparison to other clubs. Warrington will be stronger, possibly Wigan, probably Saints, Wakey and Catalan. Will our greater depth offset the loss of Zak? I'm not convinced enough to have a bet, whereas last year I was.
Another factor is that we were much better than the others in the first half of last year, then a lot closer, so I'm not sure the element of surprise is as prevalent this time round.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by SuffolkTiger » 22 Jan 2018, 20:26

Good thread.

In my opinion we are weaker on 3 fronts:
- no ZH
- other teams now know what to expect
- other teams will be better than last year esp. Saints, Wire & Wigan

But to balance that we are strengthened because we:
- have a year's experience at the top under our belts
- are spurred on by the pain of the GF where we blew the opportunity of a lifetime to achieve a global sporting phenomenon
- have more strength in depth and positional cover

I think we are as strong as last year and will be in the mix throughout the season.

Injuries & Lady Luck need to be our friends...

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by tigerfeat » 22 Jan 2018, 21:00

I had doubts over the signings we made but the squad looks very strong now anybody not playing at top of his game powell as options all through the squad to make changes , i dont see there being four sides above us come semi final time and it comes down to me wether in a one off final we can produce are best performance and powell get the tacticts spot on i dont even think not having zak will stop us if we can answer the questions in a big final
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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by lidds » 22 Jan 2018, 21:22

I agree I think we are stronger than last year.

I have to say I really don't buy into the 'lost our element of surprise' or the 'teams have now worked us out' statements. We have been there or there abouts the last few years including 1 win off top a couple of years ago and a CC Final appearance.

Also out left edge broke the try scoring record in the 2016 season. Surely teams cant have been 'surprised' when our left edge was so good again in 2017.

Although we haven't signed any superstars, we have manged to (With one exception) maintain a LLS winning squad.
Not only that but some of our new recruits from that season will now have a full preseason to work on plays / get a better understanding of each other (Including the current SL top try scorer and one of the top centres in the comp). Also guys like Jess have a nice full preseason under their belts in our environment.

In terms of recruits think they are certainly an improvement over the guys we lost. Plus Oli will be like a new player.

On to the obvious at full Back...... Yes Zak will be a huge loss, but I really think Benny can fill the gap well and will add an extra dimension to our attacking line (I wouldn't fancy been 2 on 2 with Shenny / Eden then have Benny linking up into the line, he has a wicked step and is as strong as an Ox)

One issue we had last year was sometimes getting a bit bullied in the Middle, Hopefully that will Improve this year with addition of Green who looks like he will add a bit of aggression and we certainly have some competition for places which is nice to have. (Hopefully Spring Gadwin into action!)

Hoping we can get another full year out of Webster, however we do look to have a pretty good back up plan with either Wardle slotting straight into Centre or Minikin with Lo on the wing (Not forgetting Jy, Clare and Egodo)


On paper some other teams may have recruited better, but have also lost a few players, and how often does signing big name players immediately pay off? I know its a bit of an ongoing joke but how often do you think ' Wow wolves have signed some great players' then do naff all. Leeds don't exactly have a great 6/7. Wigan have stuck to what they know best with players such as Sarginson, no need to break him down and build him up in the Wigan way.... Hull will be really involved I feel but again have lost a few key guys. I can't imagine many teams would take their pack over ours, or our 6/7, or our Centre / wing combos. Or our coach


May come back to bite me in the arse but am very confident about this season, and with the disappointment from last years GF it will spur then on to go on step further (Think our strength in depth will also help have a good run in the CC)

P.s if anyone fancies my Skybet request for Gale top point scorer, Eden top try, and LLS its 25/1 on Skybet. Anyone else had any flutter yet?

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by fords » 22 Jan 2018, 21:37

SuffolkTiger wrote:Good thread.

In my opinion we are weaker on 3 fronts:
- no ZH
- other teams now know what to expect
- other teams will be better than last year esp. Saints, Wire & Wigan

But to balance that we are strengthened because we:
- have a year's experience at the top under our belts
- are spurred on by the pain of the GF where we blew the opportunity of a lifetime to achieve a global sporting phenomenon
- have more strength in depth and positional cover

I think we are as strong as last year and will be in the mix throughout the season.

Injuries & Lady Luck need to be our friends...
- no ZH
No doubt Zak makes us weaker in the FB position. With him id think we would be favourites for the lot.

- other teams now know what to expect
Doubt it. No Zak this year so i suspect we will have something different to compensate for it

- other teams will be better than last year esp. Saints, Wire & Wigan
Saints will
Wigan wont
Wire - jury is out still

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by cogito ergo sum » 22 Jan 2018, 22:21

Some stats for last year make interesting reading, if only to ask if we were "worked out".

First half of 2017, points for 537, against 254, average win 36-17 (rounded up)

Second half of 2017, 428 for 282 against, average win 28-19.

That indicates were were more effective in the first half, so why was that? Will that carry through to this year?

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by lidds » 22 Jan 2018, 22:53

cogito ergo sum wrote:Some stats for last year make interesting reading, if only to ask if we were "worked out".

First half of 2017, points for 537, against 254, average win 36-17 (rounded up)

Second half of 2017, 428 for 282 against, average win 28-19.

That indicates were were more effective in the first half, so why was that? Will that carry through to this year?
Are you including the super 8s in the 2nd half where were are playing a mix of better teams ?

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by cogito ergo sum » 22 Jan 2018, 23:05

I believe I only included regular season games, but I originally posted this in November and have just lifted it from my previous posts, so genuinely can't recall. The stats may prove nothing at all because most of the blowout scores came early, but I had the feeling that we were less effective in the second part of the season.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by InTheKnow » 23 Jan 2018, 00:03

Not sure I believe we are stronger. Yes I agree we have more depth but our starting 13 looks a little weaker in 2 of our main positions. Benny at FB is OK but he ain't no Zak. Trueman/Ellis is OK at 6 but they ain't no Benny.

Our forwards definitely look stronger though so shouldn't get beaten up as much against the Hull and Saints etc....

I think Saints will give everyone a run this year.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by CasRus » 23 Jan 2018, 02:13

Yes indeed Cas were rattling up high blowout scores against some big teams early on, however consider that even though teams had worked us out later, we still triumphed albeit by lower margins and some games with backup players in. Cas will not finish anywhere near the number of points scored like last year and games will now be a lot closer, but looking at the squad assembled, it will take a very good team to beat us providing we can speed up the game that bit more and have players aware of the opportunities from that. Cas will only get beat in having one of their off days which they did have a couple of times during the season and the glaring GF game !

St Helens will be class also (They are the worry if they play at their best and Cas have an average game) but don't see Wigan or Leeds progressing this season and WIres will take time to gain fluency I think which deserted them most of last season. Wakey are the dark horses again for me having assembled some big guys in their squad and always liked Miller as a playmaker so can cause upsets. Hull will not be as good this season either for me. So, all in all, it's between us and St.Helens for the spoils this year.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by terminaldecline » 23 Jan 2018, 09:09

We've kept so much of the first choice 17 together from last season that, with the exception of Hardaker, you can't really say we're much weaker. And then you add in all the new signings that will either improve the 17 or won't get in the team... so in my opinion we are stronger.

The spine of the team looks very good, from an attacking/creative point of view
Roberts, Trueman/Ellis, Gale, Milner, McShane

I think you've got to see Roberts as more of a Dorn type fullback than a Hardaker, and to be honest this could be a very good thing.

I don't have a problem with our attacking options on the wing (Eden, Minikin, Clare, Lo)

and our pack is still strong. Moors, Millington, JSL, McMeeken, Holmes, Massey

Our squad has a lot of depth this season. but my concern is whether we get a full season out of both Shenton and Webster in the centres. I think it was one of the unnoticed advantages of last season, getting so many minutes out of that amount of experience on the playing field. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to be that lucky again.

But we going to be as formidable as last season? do we have to be?

we could have 5 extra defeats during the regular season (which would make us appear weaker) and still be LLS winners, and with 1 extra win right at the end... I'd be happy with that weaker team

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by princeka01 » 23 Jan 2018, 09:43

I have said from the start that our recruitment hasn't been bad. A lot of people want a big name signing but at the end of the day a player only comes good under the right coaching and development. look at the 'big names' that have moved about and turned out to be a flop even aussies like kevin locke etc.. our own clark, carney and chase had been considered big signings to the clubs they joined and look what happened. What i like is through our coaching is we make players big names at a fraction of a cost. Yeh there are players with natural talent like Zak but every man is replaceable and i have lost count how many times we have proved that and had a stronger season. I for one cant wait to see this side, i am liking the amount of youth in the side too... how funny will it be if BMM does nothing at wolves, however he is one of those with natural talent also

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by nottinghamtiger » 23 Jan 2018, 09:46

We’ve lost the best full-back (and one of the best players) in the game. Whilst Roberts may be a good attacking threat, Hardaker was the reason our defence improved so much in 2017. The way he organised the line was supurb and he’s got the instinctive positioning that only great full-backs have.
However, one man does not make a team. Plenty of clubs have won trophies without Zak Hardaker and there is no reason we can’t do the same.
In terms of the rest of the squad, I think the signing of Joe Wardle has gone under the radar. He was supurb at Huddersfield (it’s easy to forget he scored about a try every two games) and was doing well in the NRL. He’s certainly done better over there than the likes of Sarginson (and also better than Eden, who didn’t turn out to be a bad signing). At 26, he should be hitting his best years now too. I could see him and McMeekan both being international back rowers for the next few years.
Last year we struggled against big packs. We were crying out for one or two who would just do the basic stuff and run hard well when necessary. Lynch and Springer were meant to offer this last year but (whilst he has been a great player) Lynch went on a year too long and Springer was just poor. Green and Clark give us exactly what we were missing - not superstars but big, strong and willing to run hard.
I also think Jamie Ellis is an improvement at half back (which I know many won’t agree with). Last season, everyone knew we only had Gale with a decent kicking game. As such, teams knew exactly where the ball was going on the last play and could predict what was going to happen. Having someone on each side of the play who can kick will make this aspect of our game far less predictable and I think we’ll see more tries from kicks and more defensive sets starting in the opposition’s 20 than last year.
Lo will be an interesting one but I’ve not seen him play enough to know how good he is. Super League is ruthless and if he’s weak defensively or poor under the high ball, he’ll be exposed and playing back in the lower league in a very short space of time.

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by StevieTheTV » 23 Jan 2018, 10:03

cogito ergo sum wrote:Some stats for last year make interesting reading, if only to ask if we were "worked out".

First half of 2017, points for 537, against 254, average win 36-17 (rounded up)

Second half of 2017, 428 for 282 against, average win 28-19.

That indicates were were more effective in the first half, so why was that? Will that carry through to this year?
I still dont believe teams worked us out in the second half of the year. We just werent as dominant in the middles, two of our most influencial players in Moors and Milner were both out for periods of a few weeks each which would have a knock on effect that cannot be seen in stats.
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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by jackknife » 23 Jan 2018, 11:17

Id say no simply because

1 Hardaker
6 Roberts
7 Gale

Is a better spine than

1 Roberts
6 Ellis/Trueman
7 Gale
CLASSY CAS FOREVER

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Re: 2018 Squad stronger than Last Year ?? You decide

Post by TT Tiger » 23 Jan 2018, 12:47

Roberts adds more balance at full back. I think we will see him come into the line on both the left and right edge because he is a better passer if the ball off either hand than ZH and Zak even said he just let the right edge get on with it. With this in mind I think it will make us harder to defend against as last year opponents knew that the extra man would only join the line on the left edge. Now it could be on either side.

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