Zak's return?

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by cogito ergo sum » 17 Dec 2017, 10:03

The discussion around principles, morals or ethics is interesting. Is Zak's crime taking coke, letting down Cas or getting caught?
Are we naive enough to think that if DP was aware that Zak or any other player was taking recreational drugs, they would be sacked? We would be getting rid of Zak because he's been caught, and so can't do his job, not because we are guardians of morals.
Zak's "habits" were an open secret, yet we signed him. If our role was one of moral standards setting we wouldn't have.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by tigerfeat » 17 Dec 2017, 10:13

If all the players taking coke were to be sacked youd struggle to put six super league sides together , dont make it right but it is what it is
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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Big Shug » 17 Dec 2017, 11:21

Out of interest, are newly signed players not drug tested as part of their medical before signing.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by nottinghamtiger » 17 Dec 2017, 11:39

Big Shug wrote:Out of interest, are newly signed players not drug tested as part of their medical before signing.
They might be, but everyone knows cocaine passes through the system very quickly. It’s only going to be detected (in a urine test) if you have taken it in the previous 24 hours or so. Obviously not an exact science as it depends on how much is taken.
Fresh orange juice also ‘masks’ the metabolite of cocaine, so even if you have taken it it’s easy to make sure is doesn’t show up on a test.

It’s an indication of how stupid Hardaker is that he:
1. Probably snorted it the evening before a game and
2. Having done so, didn’t bother to drink a couple of cartons of orange juice to make sure he wasn’t caught.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 12:04

Can I just point out no where at all does it say that zaks crime is taking coke/medtabolite of coke or anything illegal. What it does say is he had a banned substance in his body. Does anyone here know for a fact that it was coke? Had he taken too much of his inhaler? Let’s wait and see the facts before we hang the lad out to dry. It might be coke but it’s funny all other statements about players and drugs mentioned coke zaks does not.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by chesterfieldtiger » 17 Dec 2017, 12:18

All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
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Re: Zak's return?

Post by bane73 » 17 Dec 2017, 14:02

chesterfieldtiger wrote:All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
That’s what I said in the first week of his ban. Everyone was saying coke but I hasn’t been confirmed that it is Colombian marching powder, ok, it’s more than likely it is but until it’s confirmed it’s mere speculation.
what doesn't kill me simply makes me...stranger.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by cogito ergo sum » 17 Dec 2017, 14:48

bane73 wrote:
chesterfieldtiger wrote:All press releases said he'd been banned for taking coke. Though I've not read anywhere from the RFL or Cas to confirm this. Now I'm no legal eagle but the consequences of reporting untruths are considerable considering the liable issues. So have the papers lied or are the RFL and Cas holding back. You decide!
That’s what I said in the first week of his ban. Everyone was saying coke but I hasn’t been confirmed that it is Colombian marching powder, ok, it’s more than likely it is but until it’s confirmed it’s mere speculation.
If I was Zak and this was a miscarriage of justice, I wouldn't have been apologising to everyone, I'd have been protesting my innocence to anyone who would listen.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 15:59

I’m not saying innocent just maybe not coke.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:11

Well put Aid.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by sparky49 » 17 Dec 2017, 17:15

Personally, I think that as soon as the club were told that he had failed a drugs test then his wage should have been suspended. I hope that this has happened.

He is history, Benny to full back and inwards to the 2018 season
cum on you Ford

You cannot suspend someone without pay, they have to be paid in full until the case has run it's course.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:18

Does anyone think that he hasnt touched the Colombian Talc since this was highlighted?

Just to add the "Crime" isnt getting caught. Dont take it wont get caught.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 17 Dec 2017, 17:39

No the “crime” is a banned substance it may only be semantics and irrelevant in the long run but up to now only journalists have said cocaine not anyone official. Thus time last year everyone was congratulating the club on their silence surrounding the snakes case but now that same silence and professionalism is deafening. You can’t stop an employees wages until the trial is heard so saying the club should is ludicrous.
We need to remember we don’t have the facts to make the decisions. And it’s not our decision to make. Having seen what has happened in the last 4 years at this club I can’t see DP or SG doing anything to intentionally damage the club.
COYF!

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Aid » 17 Dec 2017, 18:11

sparky49 wrote:Personally, I think that as soon as the club were told that he had failed a drugs test then his wage should have been suspended. I hope that this has happened.

He is history, Benny to full back and inwards to the 2018 season
cum on you Ford

You cannot suspend someone without pay, they have to be paid in full until the case has run it's course.
Of course you can suspend him without pay! He admitted guilt in his public statement. He has not said that he was appealing. He has no employment rights he has contractual rights and he blew them apart when he choose to sniff a white line.
If he wanted to go to court to claim that Cas had broken his contract, let him - his contract was to play Rugby
League, It is Hardaker who has crossed the line, is in the wrong. No legal team would touch him with a proverbial bargepole!
cum on you Ford

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by takethetwo » 17 Dec 2017, 19:50

I too thought you couldn't be suspended without pay.
Unless a disciplinary has taken place of course.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by fords » 17 Dec 2017, 20:01

takethetwo wrote:I too thought you couldn't be suspended without pay.
Unless a disciplinary has taken place of course.

You can be suspended without pay if your employment contract says your employer can do this, but they must be acting reasonably. If your employment contract doesn't say your employer can do this, your employer may still be able to suspend you, but with pay.

No doubt all players will have the above in their contract about not taking illegal substance.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Aid » 18 Dec 2017, 00:31

It is worth remembering that when the UK drugs authority come back with the two year ban, that the two years does not start from that day. it starts from the Thursday before the Grand final over 10 weeks ago, the day when the RFL, the club and player were told about the failed drug test.
So if the £100,000 Hardaker salary is correct he will have pocketed nearly £20,000 since then. And it could be a fair few more weeks before we hear of the ban. I suppose the club could ask him for it all back?
cum on you Ford

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 18 Dec 2017, 10:22

If he isnt "Banned" by the authorities why didnt he play in the GF?

Why did the club choose to "Suspend" him without his hearing having taken place?

If he is suspended, banned if you like, and he is then given 2 years then why will the club stick by him?

If yhey want to "Stick by him" then surelt he should be on a business as usual until proven guilty?

Not a criticism because I would have picked him and carried until his hearing. Much the same way as people are allowed to go to work until their coyrt hearings.

What if he is found not guilty?

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by TT Tiger » 18 Dec 2017, 11:27

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:If he isnt "Banned" by the authorities why didnt he play in the GF?

Why did the club choose to "Suspend" him without his hearing having taken place?

If he is suspended, banned if you like, and he is then given 2 years then why will the club stick by him?

If yhey want to "Stick by him" then surelt he should be on a business as usual until proven guilty?

Not a criticism because I would have picked him and carried until his hearing. Much the same way as people are allowed to go to work until their coyrt hearings.

What if he is found not guilty?
Some people are remanded on bail and others can’t go to work depending on their job. Would a pharmacist accused of steeling prescription drugs be allowed back to work a Boots? I very much doubt it. If you are accused of taking performance enhancing durgs the obvious thing is that you have to be suspended pending investigation.

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Re: Zak's return?

Post by Bolton-tiger » 18 Dec 2017, 12:12

Jayden nikorima has been done for failing a 2nd drugs test and only has a 12 match ban...bit like barbers so does it give hope for zak not to get 2 years

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