sentencing

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sentencing

Post by gateman » 21 Nov 2017, 10:42

it seems ages since Zaks misdemeanour came to light , in the interests of all party's concerned shouldn't a date have been set so people can see the out come and move on, who are this body that decides the sentence ?? what input if any have the rugby league ??

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Re: sentencing

Post by mart0042 » 21 Nov 2017, 10:48

I have no idea how these things work but there hasn't been a result in the rangi /Adam walker case yet.

I think wada are steeling themselves for being sued by tyson Fury. If so bankrupt then if he wins.

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Re: sentencing

Post by yorkie1bn » 21 Nov 2017, 20:46

I have heard a strange thing today that Hardacres test samples have been sent to America for testing, Why ?

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Re: sentencing

Post by gateman » 21 Nov 2017, 20:55

a bit on the news about a centre that had been drug testing for the police had done some of them wrong and a number of cases had been thrown out,

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Re: sentencing

Post by westyorkylad » 22 Nov 2017, 13:17

Has anyone else given any thought to the fact that Ben Baba got 12 weeks (or whatever it was) and then came over to the UK served his remaining weeks on his suspension and was then allowed to play? By allowing him to do that it appears to me that the UK agency that deals with doping/drugs etc has kind of caused itself a problem.

How can they now insist that Zac should be suspended for 2 years, as they have effectively agreed with their Australian equivalent on this sentence by not insisting that to play in SL Baba would have to have served 2 years.

Its food for thought, especially as I see Rangi's ban hasn't yet been confirmed?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zacs legal team (if he has one?) would be looking at this.................

Just a thought

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Re: sentencing

Post by andymc133 » 22 Nov 2017, 13:35

As has been said before barba's offence was out of competition where as zak appears to have played after using

12 weeks does seem like a soft sentence in comparison to 2 years but then when it comes down to it you only get a ban for drink driving if caught under influence while driving

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Re: sentencing

Post by fords » 22 Nov 2017, 13:36

westyorkylad wrote:Has anyone else given any thought to the fact that Ben Baba got 12 weeks (or whatever it was) and then came over to the UK served his remaining weeks on his suspension and was then allowed to play? By allowing him to do that it appears to me that the UK agency that deals with doping/drugs etc has kind of caused itself a problem.

How can they now insist that Zac should be suspended for 2 years, as they have effectively agreed with their Australian equivalent on this sentence by not insisting that to play in SL Baba would have to have served 2 years.

Its food for thought, especially as I see Rangi's ban hasn't yet been confirmed?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zacs legal team (if he has one?) would be looking at this.................

Just a thought

Barba tested positive outside of "competition" so its a diff ball game altogether

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Re: sentencing

Post by Flat Capper » 22 Nov 2017, 13:41

westyorkylad wrote:Has anyone else given any thought to the fact that Ben Baba got 12 weeks (or whatever it was) and then came over to the UK served his remaining weeks on his suspension and was then allowed to play? By allowing him to do that it appears to me that the UK agency that deals with doping/drugs etc has kind of caused itself a problem.

How can they now insist that Zac should be suspended for 2 years, as they have effectively agreed with their Australian equivalent on this sentence by not insisting that to play in SL Baba would have to have served 2 years.

Its food for thought, especially as I see Rangi's ban hasn't yet been confirmed?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zacs legal team (if he has one?) would be looking at this.................

Just a thought
I suggest you read all of the Hardaker thread which explains the differences in the 2 cases.
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Re: sentencing

Post by tallguyx » 22 Nov 2017, 14:23

There was a thing on radio where a common South American flu remedy has made lots of footballers test positive for cocaine and they used it as excuse! I’m not sure how common this remedy is in Ponte lol but could this be his excuse....

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Re: sentencing

Post by westyorkylad » 22 Nov 2017, 14:40

fords wrote:
westyorkylad wrote:Has anyone else given any thought to the fact that Ben Baba got 12 weeks (or whatever it was) and then came over to the UK served his remaining weeks on his suspension and was then allowed to play? By allowing him to do that it appears to me that the UK agency that deals with doping/drugs etc has kind of caused itself a problem.

How can they now insist that Zac should be suspended for 2 years, as they have effectively agreed with their Australian equivalent on this sentence by not insisting that to play in SL Baba would have to have served 2 years.

Its food for thought, especially as I see Rangi's ban hasn't yet been confirmed?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zacs legal team (if he has one?) would be looking at this.................

Just a thought

Barba tested positive outside of "competition" so its a diff ball game altogether
And that is confirmed by whom? If a tennis player is tested before or after a tournament it wont count then as they are out of competition?

As I say I am just suggesting that all may not be as cut and dried with a 2 year ban as it seems. If it was then surely at least Rangi's ban would have been confirmed by now as 2 years?

I am not an official of a drugs testing body, I am just thinking out loud ............ as I say food for thought.

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Re: sentencing

Post by Flat Capper » 22 Nov 2017, 14:45

I refer you to my previous answer which explains the ins and outs a great deal more but to summarise:

Hardaker has failed a standard anti-doping body test, Barba failed a 'local' test by his club and therefore not quite unofficial but you know what I mean. Hardaker has NO grounds for appeal.
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Re: sentencing

Post by the machine » 22 Nov 2017, 15:07

tallguyx wrote:There was a thing on radio where a common South American flu remedy has made lots of footballers test positive for cocaine and they used it as excuse! I’m not sure how common this remedy is in Ponte lol but could this be his excuse....
He pretty much pleaded guilty in the press release and said it his own fault so I can't imagine he'd be looking for an 'excuse'
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Re: sentencing

Post by gateman » 22 Nov 2017, 16:08

as anyone any idea when this body meets to dish out sentence's ?? , as the rugby league any input in to the time scale of the sentence ??

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Re: sentencing

Post by westyorkylad » 22 Nov 2017, 16:19

Flat Capper wrote:I refer you to my previous answer which explains the ins and outs a great deal more but to summarise:

Hardaker has failed a standard anti-doping body test, Barba failed a 'local' test by his club and therefore not quite unofficial but you know what I mean. Hardaker has NO grounds for appeal.
I am afraid I don't no, if Baba has had his ban upheld in the UK then surely it cannot simply be an internal club ban, otherwise he would be free to play as soon as he left that club.

It seems to me this is a bit of a grey area, and I think its fairly likely that legal representatives for Zac or the club or both will be looking at this in some way as clearly some sort of precedent has been set if his ban has been upheld in the UK.

If someone can post a link or document from the agency in the UK that clearly states why this would be acceptable for Baba but not Zac and why one should receive 12 matches and the other 2 years then fair enough, but I very much doubt that exists, hence it seems there may be some room to challenge a potential 2 year ban.

I am not suggesting for a minute that Zac is innocent, he clearly isn't, however what I think is less clear is the fact he will definitely be receiving a 2 year ban.

As I mentioned before if this is cut and dried why hasnt Rangi already received his 2 year ban? I would not be at all surprised if his/Widnes are challenging the length of ban for exactly the same reason.

Again I do not know this for a fact, and at this stage all we can do is speculate, but the fact that at least Rangi's ban hasn't already been announced as 2 years suggest that something may be going on behind the scenes.

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Re: sentencing

Post by derkster » 22 Nov 2017, 17:44

"St Helens fans must wait another two months to see exciting new signing Ben Barba in action after the club failed to overturn his 12-match ban.

The 2014 Super League champions signed the 28-year-old Australian on a two-and-a-half-year contract just over a month ago after taking advantage of the amended marquee player rule introduced by clubs earlier in the year.

However, the Darwin-born Barba, a Grand Final winner with Cronulla last September, arrived via French rugby union club Toulon with a hefty suspension hanging over him following his use of cocaine.

The Rugby Football League decided to honour that ban imposed by the NRL and an independent operational rules tribunal, sitting in Leeds on Tuesday evening, dismissed Saints' appeal.

A statement from the RFL said: "The independent panel, led by His Honour Judge Peter Charlesworth, confirmed the suspension originally set by the NRL and subsequently recognised by the Rugby Football League, should remain."

Barba has already sat out five games and will now be available for round four of the Super 8s in the week beginning Monday, August 28.

St Helens, who beat rivals Warrington to the prized signature of Barba, argued that, had the player been caught using cocaine in an out-of-competition test in England, he would have avoided a ban.

The RFL had to weigh that up against loyalty to their NRL counterparts, who could have been expected to receive their backing".

Thats an excerpt from a piece on skys RL page which explains why the ban was what it was. A totally different scenario to Zaks case as previously stated several times.

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Re: sentencing

Post by fords » 22 Nov 2017, 19:41

westyorkylad wrote:
Flat Capper wrote:I refer you to my previous answer which explains the ins and outs a great deal more but to summarise:

Hardaker has failed a standard anti-doping body test, Barba failed a 'local' test by his club and therefore not quite unofficial but you know what I mean. Hardaker has NO grounds for appeal.
I am afraid I don't no, if Baba has had his ban upheld in the UK then surely it cannot simply be an internal club ban, otherwise he would be free to play as soon as he left that club.

It seems to me this is a bit of a grey area, and I think its fairly likely that legal representatives for Zac or the club or both will be looking at this in some way as clearly some sort of precedent has been set if his ban has been upheld in the UK.

If someone can post a link or document from the agency in the UK that clearly states why this would be acceptable for Baba but not Zac and why one should receive 12 matches and the other 2 years then fair enough, but I very much doubt that exists, hence it seems there may be some room to challenge a potential 2 year ban.

I am not suggesting for a minute that Zac is innocent, he clearly isn't, however what I think is less clear is the fact he will definitely be receiving a 2 year ban.

As I mentioned before if this is cut and dried why hasnt Rangi already received his 2 year ban? I would not be at all surprised if his/Widnes are challenging the length of ban for exactly the same reason.

Again I do not know this for a fact, and at this stage all we can do is speculate, but the fact that at least Rangi's ban hasn't already been announced as 2 years suggest that something may be going on behind the scenes.
My understanding of this case though is that it is an in-competition test which covers the period from 12hrs before the start to the end of an event and also that 'cocaine' is only a banned substance in-competition and attracts no WADA sanction out of competition, although clubs/governing bodies may choose to hand out their own punishments a la Ben Barba been only banned from the NRL.

Hardaker was in competition so its 2yrs. End of.

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Re: sentencing

Post by takethetwo » 22 Nov 2017, 21:41

But Barba wasn't only banned in the NRL.
Saints would've played him straight away, his 12 game ban stood over here so who actually banned him?

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Re: sentencing

Post by Spanishtiger » 22 Nov 2017, 23:16

Why don't you try reading ALL the previous posts in a thread before asking something that has just been explained ?

Barba tested positive for cocaine in an out of season test conducted by the NRL, not the WADA. His ban was imposed by the NRL, not WADA. When he signed for saints the RFL upheld his existing NRL (not WADA) ban either through solidarity or to prevent a precedent being set.

Zak tested positive for a prohibited substance in a test carried out IN competition, conducted by the UK arm of WADA, therefore his punishment will be a mandatory two year ban from competing in any professional sport governed by WADA rules (ie more or less all all, Yawnion included).

As Zak has already apologized for his indiscretion it's highly unlikely that a mistake has been made.

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Re: sentencing

Post by gateman » 23 Nov 2017, 09:26

I will point out once again, I cannot see why it takes so long from when some one as committed an offence that a date is not set for his appearance to face who ever dishes out that sentence, I don't think Rangi and Walker have appeared as yet , I bet if any of us committed a minor indiscretion of the law a brown envelope would be delivered in a few weeks after the offence

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Re: sentencing

Post by westyorkylad » 23 Nov 2017, 09:31

Spanishtiger wrote:Why don't you try reading ALL the previous posts in a thread before asking something that has just been explained ?

Barba tested positive for cocaine in an out of season test conducted by the NRL, not the WADA. His ban was imposed by the NRL, not WADA. When he signed for saints the RFL upheld his existing NRL (not WADA) ban either through solidarity or to prevent a precedent being set.

Zak tested positive for a prohibited substance in a test carried out IN competition, conducted by the UK arm of WADA, therefore his punishment will be a mandatory two year ban from competing in any professional sport governed by WADA rules (ie more or less all all, Yawnion included).

As Zak has already apologized for his indiscretion it's highly unlikely that a mistake has been made.
So if you are tested in one scenario you receive a 2 year ban but in another 12 weeks, and you are happy that there is no grey area here?

Whilst I do not dispute what you say what I am suggesting is there may be some legal wrangling going on in the back ground.

If everything is as cut and dried as you say, why then have the 2 year bans not been confirmed yet? For Rangi at least as that was some time before Zac and for the same substance and during the playing season?

As I said previously perhaps this is not as cut and dried as first appears.

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