Very very poor across the team

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by Richall » 19 Jun 2017, 13:09

My opinion on the penalty count is we are too nice we get tackled wait til there players got up then got up and played the ball, Hull on the other hand were wriggling about then diving back down on the floor and Bentham was taking it hook line and sinker everytime now weather that's good play on hull's behalf or plain cheating I will let you all decide

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Jun 2017, 13:13

Yeah they tried to by a penalty every tackle so suprised we only got pinned 14 times
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by Flat Capper » 19 Jun 2017, 13:47

Whilst sat in the queue on the A63 I said to Mrs FC that we need to get the tactics right for the heat. It was inevitable that Hull would come at us strong down the middle, using their big men to the best of their ability. We needed to hold them out and then play an expansive game to run them across the park and tire them out. As Bill Shankly used to say, the ball never gets tired.

One of the very few negative comments about Powell at Fev was that the team 'bottled' the 'big games' with the claim that in spite of playing expansive rugby all season, for some reason they kept reverting to one-out rugby in the finals.

For some reason unknown to us, we got drawn into playing one-out rugby against a team that is soley designed to play and defend that way.

Yes, the penalties killed us but most of them were technically correct although I do believe Hull were equally as bad at clearing the play-the-ball but were only penalised in our 20/30 and not in their half like we were. Equally , the last Cas play should have gone our way on two accounts but at that stage time was against us anyway.

I'm sure the plan will be reinforced before the play-offs but we need to stick to our style of rugby to prove the boring style does not win.
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by init » 19 Jun 2017, 15:38

As i said yesterday disappointed but over it now......Hulls tactics beat ours.....DP said as much in the post match interview and said it was up to him n the staff to come up with a way to counter it....there is one thing i am absolutely sure of is if DP says they are working on it there is no better coach anywhere in rugby to make it happen.......

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by RonnieGibbs'forearm » 19 Jun 2017, 15:54

ERG2012 wrote:The penalties create momentum and also anyone who has played the game will know defence saps energy.
Back to back sets
Retaining possession
Momentum
Dramatically drains the opposition
Add in the weather conditions

Recipe for only one outcome.

We were just bossed all over the park
Hull are our nemesis this year and we just have no answer to their physical style
I think we've too many players in the middle unit that are of the same mould
Massey Milner Foster Holmes Larroyer all will do minutes and graft but will and bust a tackle or really rattle a big ball carrying prop
Millo is a 13 and were using Meeks and JSL as fringe runners.
We need some size and abrasion

Whether this stat is true or not Metres gained
Hull 1300
Cas 800
You echo my thoughts exactly. Don't know if stat is right but sounds plausible. Still think Powell will find a way past them. But they are a good side on their day. The most physical side in the league. Similar to how Salford beat us but in contrasting weather.
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by WF10 » 19 Jun 2017, 16:20

We were naive more than anything yesterday I reckon. Felt like the ref gave them everything but they seemed smart enough to make the ref have to think about awarding them a penalty in the first instance, whereas we never really made the ref even consider giving us penalties when they were 'needed' by us.

All in all, you could tell which team were used to playing in the big games and finals and which team wasn't.

If we don't learn from yesterday, we'll end up with nothing. But surely we will.

Edited to add - I still expect us to win the LLS. Need to learn from it when playing wily and battle hardened sides in knock out rugby.
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by Fryston Tiger » 19 Jun 2017, 16:37

Now the doomsayers have had their say and having just watched the game back, i'll chip in my two'pennorth....
After the poor start, we did well to level up the way we did. We seem to be too honest at the PTB, whereas Hull always seemed to dive/lunge forward looking for the pen, we just got dominated and allowed them to control our own PTBs. We did get penalised more than Hull in this area, often quite rightly.
When we got our noses in front, would anyone deny thinking that we would go on and win the Tie? The game turned for me on Shenny's knock-on around the 65th minute. Have we seen them get called the other way? Yes. Are we surprised that the home side got the call? No. We've got away with a few like that at home this season.
Once Hull regained their energy, they were obviously the better side and deserved to win as our energy levels drained. We dropped way too many balls and that just drained us even further in that incredible heat.
Incidently, League Express has the Penalty Count at 8-5 in Hull's favour,,,tho Aaron Bower, the Reporter, as Millo as MOM for us...which is just plain crazy as he had one of the worst games for us....which is very rare!
All-in-all, Hull's tactics won the game for them in an energy-sapping, close game. That's only our 4th loss this year so lets not get carried away and start saying we're bottlers! Hull play a very basic yet clever gameplan against us and we do need to find a way around it next time we meet. Keep the faith people....it's still a great season we're having and there's loads to play for!

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by Scoopage » 19 Jun 2017, 16:55

Heard from a good source DP as had them in today and is not a happy man,had a right rollicking by all accounts and made to train.hopefully see a reaction Friday

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by old cas lass » 19 Jun 2017, 17:03

Scoopage wrote:Heard from a good source DP as had them in today and is not a happy man,had a right rollicking by all accounts and made to train.hopefully see a reaction Friday
Well zak as put on instagram a video of 4/5 of the boys on a bike ride.

Not sure where they are like.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by Scoopage » 19 Jun 2017, 17:11

old cas lass wrote:
Scoopage wrote:Heard from a good source DP as had them in today and is not a happy man,had a right rollicking by all accounts and made to train.hopefully see a reaction Friday
Well zak as put on instagram a video of 4/5 of the boys on a bike ride.

Not sure where they are like.
Maybe afterwards ocl

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by TheSheriff » 19 Jun 2017, 17:12

14-3 penalty count just shows BENTham was only looking at 1 team all game long. One of the Hull penalties was for a kick off going out on the full!

Cas need to learn how to play when everything is going against them, that's the big learning point. They panicked.
Last edited by TheSheriff on 19 Jun 2017, 17:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by old cas lass » 19 Jun 2017, 17:13

Scoopage wrote:
old cas lass wrote:
Scoopage wrote:Heard from a good source DP as had them in today and is not a happy man,had a right rollicking by all accounts and made to train.hopefully see a reaction Friday
Well zak as put on instagram a video of 4/5 of the boys on a bike ride.

Not sure where they are like.
Maybe afterwards ocl
Possibly.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by CasRus » 19 Jun 2017, 17:15

Not surprised if DP had them in as he must be well disappointed with that display. I watched on TV and DP was tapping his head to tell them to use their brains which was needed in that heat and where they should have moved their pack around in standing much deeper to take the pass and also throwing the ball around more in having them run and tire more. That is using the brain but seemed to be sadly lacking yesterday.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Jun 2017, 17:33

TheSheriff wrote:14-3 penalty count just shows BENTham was only looking at 1 team all game long. One of the Hull penalties was for a kick off going out on the full!

Cas need to learn how to play when everything is going against them, that's the big learning point. They panicked.

The penalty count was 8-5 to Hull. Think someone is pulling your leg.
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Jun 2017, 17:45

Not read through the read but I was so frustrated after the game yesterday. Probably sounded the most bitterest, sour person ever but that's because I felt we blew it ourselves but with Hull getting every helping hand they could.

I don't know why but we seem to panic play every set, and try to score off everyone. We had an opportunity to just keep turning the screw and completing the sets once we were back in it and really sap their energy.

Our forwards looked shot. I know the heat was a factor and we were missing a few but I think yesterday showed that Lynch is gone, and Massey and Patrick did the steady things but nothing too strong and JSL couldn't get any impact in the game. Our best forward was Millington and it's no surprise he changed the game when he came on. I really hope the club are looking for another forward to replace Lynch as I think we've seen this season that it can be the difference between winning and losing. We need someone who offers just a bit of punch in the middle like Moors, like Millo, like Lynch of the past few years where they can buy us an extra 3/4 metres.

What Hull did really well was that they had big three-quarters too who we just couldn't put down off their own line, and big forwards who we let run at us. We lost the collision far too much and let them get on the front foot and over the advantage line.

That wasn't helped by discipline and I'm accepting of the fact that the vast majority were penalties. However, I think the ref was easily bought by play-acting and constant whinging from the home fans, which I guess is something we have to deal with. Looking at stats for Hull's last few SL games at home, they've never lost a penalty count (can't be bothered trawling through all their games).

What does gripe me is that - and I'm glad Daryl Powell said this so it wasn't just me - the game was wholly played at two speeds. We couldn't get them off fast enough and they were allowed to slow it down, whereas it felt like we got pinged if we were on any more than a few seconds, and got pinged if we got off fast and they did an Olympic swan dive. The only times we didn't get pinged is if we cleared the ruck and rolled away, which gave them free rein to run at us. I also felt that a lot of their penalties were in our 20, while we got the odd occasional penalty on our own line.

On the whole, we weren't too far away again despite playing badly (probably our worst game of the season for me). But I can't help worrying that Leeds are going to beat us on Friday too through fatigue, tiredness and the fact they've had a longer rest and an easier tie. I hope I'm proven wrong.
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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by the happy hooker9 » 19 Jun 2017, 17:51

What personally disappointed me was our lack of variety in our last play kicks in this game, apart from the reverse angle kick by Gale, all the rest were 'bombs', which were poorly executed (in the main by Roberts) The kicks were too deep, gave the receiver ample time to catch and we were unable to challenge for the ball.
Compare those with Connor's which were huge (Brough's influence?) and a soon as our defenders took possession they were tackled
Why don't we vary our kicks? a kick over the onrushing defence on the last tackle, one towards the posts with sufficient pace to enable us to follow up, our tactical kicking throughout the season has been very limited, in the main, in originality.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by baldtiger » 19 Jun 2017, 17:58

Richall wrote:My opinion on the penalty count is we are too nice we get tackled wait til there players got up then got up and played the ball, Hull on the other hand were wriggling about then diving back down on the floor and Bentham was taking it hook line and sinker everytime now weather that's good play on hull's behalf or plain cheating I will let you all decide
First time on hear since the game . Read this and thought it was spot on ! Thought Hull players were playacting for penalty's hate to see that , it reminds me of the way football has gone ... but all in all hull deserved the win and were the better side on the day ... Hulls half time coaching was to take 2 points at every opportunity , so I wouldn't say they were that confident which means we weren't that far off ...

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by WallTiger » 19 Jun 2017, 18:13

Was working yesterday so was only getting score updates but was home just before Hulls try that took them to 8 pts in front (with the conversion). We looked absolutely shot with zero energy haven't had a chance to watch the recording but reading the posts has explained why and sounds like we were beaten by the better team albeit the 'home' side got all well 50/50s perhaps. As I say I only saw the last 15 so cant really comment on the penalties other than I don't get how we didn't get one for Eden being tackled in the air!? I know he only went to the video ref to see how to restart the game but you see this week in week out in SL where an infringement is given when not the reason for VR being used! He even looked at the tackle several times! If it was just to see how to restart the game then he should just have looked at the point Eden tried to release the ball off the floor. Same as when tries are scored they say look at the grounding/touch and no mention of onside but still roll the tape back to look at it. We'll never know if we would have scored or coughed the ball up on the first play but that was a big call at the time and I'm perplexed as to why it wasnt given especially as I say the VR looked at it several times and it was clear. Even the Hull fans were quiet and expecting us to get the penalty.

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by classysupercas » 19 Jun 2017, 18:35

Richall wrote:My opinion on the penalty count is we are too nice we get tackled wait til there players got up then got up and played the ball, Hull on the other hand were wriggling about then diving back down on the floor and Bentham was taking it hook line and sinker everytime now weather that's good play on hull's behalf or plain cheating I will let you all decide
i agree with that. but another reason why we lost was that our forwards were simply not big enough. we were missing cook ,springer and moors, these are the guys that make the most impact in a game when they play well.so we were already weekened before we started playing into the refs hand with these stupid penaltys. i said months ago on here we needed two more big forwards to carry us into the play offs and we need them now asap or im afraid we will struggle in the play offs.gill said we had money set aside for emergencies and i think we have one now if we want to win something.also we have rangi chase wages spare.even when springer is back we are still very light in the forwards and im afraid larroyer and foster come nowhere near cook and moors.our kicking game also needs adressing cos this was another reason we lost. roberts even tho he is a good rugby player still gives alot of ball away. so for me i dont think we will win anything unless we get the cheque book out. :( :( :( :( :( :(

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Re: Very very poor across the team

Post by fords » 19 Jun 2017, 19:28

Scoopage wrote:Heard from a good source DP as had them in today and is not a happy man,had a right rollicking by all accounts and made to train.hopefully see a reaction Friday
Rightly so you could see in his interview he wasn't happy with it

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