Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

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Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by casgadger » 19 Jul 2016, 12:27

IMO Wakey, Widnes and Cas will just be playing 7 dead rubbers with us hoping for a couple of Sweet Carolines along the way!
The super 8s system for the bottom 4 of the top 8 is a waste of time. Even if we win against Wakey and Catalan and / or Saints lose this weekend we would still have to win 3 games on the trot and those 2 teams to lose 3 just to draw level. Not sure thats possible for us this year. IMO the league leader at the end of this round should be given league leaders shield with all teams startimg at zero and the top 4 still having more home advantage. At least with the old 6 teams system everyone had a chance of getting to the final. Unless in the top 4 all top 8 gives is superleague survival. I hope im proven wrong but look at Warrington, Hull and Catalan last year, all finished round 23 with more points than us and got nowhere.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by Jungle » 19 Jul 2016, 12:34

For me points should be re set but the top 4 get points as the reward 1st 4points 2nd 3points 3rd 2points 4th 1point

Reat start on zero making every game far more important

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by chesterfieldtiger » 19 Jul 2016, 12:36

casgadger wrote:IMO Wakey, Widnes and Cas will just be playing 7 dead rubbers with us hoping for a couple of Sweet Carolines along the way!
The super 8s system for the bottom 4 of the top 8 is a waste of time. Even if we win against Wakey and Catalan and / or Saints lose this weekend we would still have to win 3 games on the trot and those 2 teams to lose 3 just to draw level. Not sure thats possible for us this year. IMO the league leader at the end of this round should be given league leaders shield with all teams startimg at zero and the top 4 still having more home advantage. At least with the old 6 teams system everyone had a chance of getting to the final. Unless in the top 4 all top 8 gives is superleague survival. I hope im proven wrong but look at Warrington, Hull and Catalan last year, all finished round 23 with more points than us and got nowhere.
Said this since the invention of the new format. It makes a mockery of every minute matters. I got shot down by people saying that teams would put the cue on the rack when safe in the top 8. To this I suggested a larger winners cheque for the LLS awarded after 23 rounds. Then making the super 8,s a new competition geared to making the grand final. This way imo every minute would matter and not end up with as you say dead rubbers at the end of the regular season. I also think these dead games have a detrimental effect on crowds, thus making less revenue. OK rant over.
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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by nottinghamtiger » 19 Jul 2016, 12:39

The system means that it is almost impossible to catch the top 4 unless you are within about 4 points of them.
This is because they will all play each other, so there are already 14 points that will be distributed amongst the top 4. The only hope is that one teams suffers a massive drop in form and gets beaten by almost everyone, though the chances of that are slim.
However, having nothing to play for after 23 games is better than having nothing to play for after 15 games, which is essentially what used to happen.
My solution would be to keep the existing points but introduce a different scoring system for the super 8s.
Three points for a win.
Two for a draw.
One for a defeat of 12 or less.
This would mean that more points were available and teams in 5-8th stood more chance of catching up.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by the machine » 19 Jul 2016, 12:41

Instead of having 7 dead rubbers wed have 23 before the split if the points were to be reset

Weve only ourselves to blame for the scenario this year,would be asking for the points to be reset if we were top at the split? Of course not
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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Jul 2016, 12:47

i do think we have to come up with a points system for the next seven matches like nottingham tiger says to give all the remaining eight teams some sort off chance at least
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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by fords » 19 Jul 2016, 12:50

casgadger wrote:IMO Wakey, Widnes and Cas will just be playing 7 dead rubbers with us hoping for a couple of Sweet Carolines along the way!
The super 8s system for the bottom 4 of the top 8 is a waste of time. Even if we win against Wakey and Catalan and / or Saints lose this weekend we would still have to win 3 games on the trot and those 2 teams to lose 3 just to draw level. Not sure thats possible for us this year. IMO the league leader at the end of this round should be given league leaders shield with all teams startimg at zero and the top 4 still having more home advantage. At least with the old 6 teams system everyone had a chance of getting to the final. Unless in the top 4 all top 8 gives is superleague survival. I hope im proven wrong but look at Warrington, Hull and Catalan last year, all finished round 23 with more points than us and got nowhere.
Pretty much yeah, bottom 4 in top 8 are just making up the numbers and have nothing to play for. Pointless

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by legionited » 19 Jul 2016, 12:50

I think it's unfortunate but there wasn't so many complaints from us last year when we finished in a better position.

There are 22 games in the regular season and only 8 in the middle 8's. Teams who perform better for 22 games should not be punished IMO.

I agree that it is frustrating to have nothing to play for but perhaps there is something they could do. In theory you could count the points acquired during the Super 8's (as well as the total SL points overall which the league remains based upon) and then the teams who finish in positions 5-8 could be rewarded accordingly based on points scored during the Super 8's only.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by Fumper27 » 19 Jul 2016, 12:51

What about only carrying forward the points won against the other teams who finish in the top 8?

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by Sharlotiger » 19 Jul 2016, 12:59

Why do we have to try and manufacture a system just to prove the RFL mantra of Every Minute Matters, it doesn't in a league style system and never will. To come up with some pecker and bull method wont do anything for crowds in the Super 8s. The big problem with the new system is that fans have no clue what the fixtures are going to be come the main holiday period and therefore can't plan to take their hols around games.
Not sure if we will stay with the current set up after the 3 year trial period. I would like to see it restructured into divisions of 10, with hopefully 4 divisions playing under the same system.
Clubs would play each other 3 times giving club owners the required 27 fixtures to make them viable. 13 home fixtures plus a Magic fixture. I would then revert to the best and old style play off system of the top 5. The bottom side would be relegated with their place going to the divisional grand final winners.
Obviuosly TV money would have to be distributed more evenly and maybe new deals done for the lower divisions. Hopefully this would allow the SL and Championship clubs to be full time and so do away with the problems we have had in the past when sides have been promoted and relegated.
Under this sytem we would all know where we stood and we would still have meaningless fixtures but maybe not as many.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by legionited » 19 Jul 2016, 13:15

To me, this entire system is built around the concept of the Middle 8's which in theory is great, but if nobody from the Championship ever gains promotion then to me it is a failure.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by Mysterio » 19 Jul 2016, 13:17

The super 8's certainly needs looking at.

Effectively our season is over. Games don't matter. Really....

It needs to help teams in 5-8 positions at least have a decent chance of progressing. Right now, we all have FA chance!?

Problem is, we could all come up with a fab new system, but nobody would listen.
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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by legionited » 19 Jul 2016, 13:25

The thing is it's entirely possible for teams to have nothing to play for in any sport. Some football teams escape relegation and have nothing to play for for several games in the Premier League. It's only highlighted here because of the nature in which the league splits. If you're in that "nothing to play for" zone then you probably deserve to be there.

I always thought the old playoff system of the Top 8 was stupid because teams who finished in the bottom half were able to compete to win the Grand Final and you end up rewarding mediocrity.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by lidds » 19 Jul 2016, 13:33

Would it be better if after the 7 'super 8' games you had a method that gave 5-8th a 'million pound game' scenario where they were still able to get into the the kockout stages.

Maybe the top team are automaticallylly through. 3rd vs 8th. 4th vs 7th. 5th vs 6th and then 2nd play the winners of 5-8 (maybe the winners of 5-8 are whoever picked up the most points during super 8s)
That leave you 4 teams in the pot (winner of those 3 games plus 1st) the rest is simple ...

This way there really is something to play for with the bottom teams

I did think about maybe having a mini knockout between 5-8 bit that adds even more games and complication.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by casgadger » 19 Jul 2016, 13:50

lidds wrote:Would it be better if after the 7 'super 8' games you had a method that gave 5-8th a 'million pound game' scenario where they were still able to get into the the kockout stages.

Maybe the top team are automaticallylly through. 3rd vs 8th. 4th vs 7th. 5th vs 6th and then 2nd play the winners of 5-8 (maybe the winners of 5-8 are whoever picked up the most points during super 8s)
That leave you 4 teams in the pot (winner of those 3 games plus 1st) the rest is simple ...

This way there really is something to play for with the bottom teams

I did think about maybe having a mini knockout between 5-8 bit that adds even more games and complication.
Actually thats not a bad idea as is Fumper27s above.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by orrsome » 19 Jul 2016, 14:52

Why not have a secondary (shield?) final where the teams that finish 5-8 play off as semi finals and the winners of these matches play in the Shield Final ahead of the Grand Final?

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by nottinghamtiger » 19 Jul 2016, 15:03

I'd rather have nothing to play for than be in the middle 8s, particularly with:
Leeds who are finding form
Salford who are only there because of a points deduction
Hull KR who we haven't beaten this season (and who put 50+ past us last time).
Huddersfield who have a new coach
Leigh who will be hurting from their abject failure last year.
And possibly Featherstone, because we know how much they will fancy a one-off game against us.
Give me nothing to play for rather than a fixture list like this when we know at least one SL team will be either relegated or in the £1m game

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by duke street 10 » 19 Jul 2016, 15:08

nottinghamtiger wrote:I'd rather have nothing to play for than be in the middle 8s, particularly with:
Leeds who are finding form
Salford who are only there because of a points deduction
Hull KR who we haven't beaten this season (and who put 50+ past us last time).
Huddersfield who have a new coach
Leigh who will be hurting from their abject failure last year.
And possibly Featherstone, because we know how much they will fancy a one-off game against us.
Give me nothing to play for rather than a fixture list like this when we know at least one SL team will be either relegated or in the £1m game
Agree 100%. i wouldn't be confident with our injury list among that lot. We should use the super 8s wisely, give some fringe players a chance and hopefully get some experienced players who were injured back playing with no direct risk for the clubs future.

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by cogito ergo sum » 19 Jul 2016, 16:21

Since Sky "bought" rugby league, as it or rival media concerns have bought almost all sports, it has been incumbent on them to provide meaniful competition until the last kick of the season. It is business. (We all know that the easter period is not healthy for players, but who cares for players welfare? Not Sky, which implies not the RFL who dance to Sky's tune). Consequently we witness contrived systems over the years designed to keep TV viewers paying the subs. When we had top 8 playoffs, theoretically a lower ranked team coming into some form or not suffering many injuries could be "champions". Now we have "Every minute matters"
Ask Wakefield players who were engaged in a million pound game which could decide mortgage payments, future careers etc, if a season's endeavour should end in a gladatorial contest where winner takes all in a structure designed to embroil as many clubs as possible into a dog fight. Call me old fashioned, but the top of the table are champions and the bottom maybe deserve to be relegated. We witnessed Wakey surrendering half way through last season and gearing up a new team for the middle eights. That can't be right

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Re: Super 8s, Anti-Climax!

Post by da_jimbob_7 » 19 Jul 2016, 23:20

Just like the salary cap, these things take time to take effect. The whole idea is that there are 12 teams evenly matched and the bottom 4 are decided towards the end of the 23 rounds and that the top 4 would also be a lot closer. Say a league where bottom is on 16 points and top on 24 come the split.
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