reserves
- the happy hooker9
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Re: reserves
We had a system in the past which IMO was ideal viz:
ACADEMY - players under 16 who where chosen from their local amateur clubs and played for the Parent Pro club in a series of matches
U18's Players who trained with the pro club and were in a league of other pro-clubs. Players form the academy graduated into the U18's and were joined by recruits from other clubs and areas.
U21's as above and this was supplemented with first team contracted players who were needing game time.
The falling of the above system was that after 21 the players who were not signed up for a pro-contract were lost to the game at the relatively young age of 21.
The reason for the above being scrapped was
a) cost of running the sides,
b)and the thought that if a player had not shown any ability,talent etc by 21 then he never would
All that was needed with the above scenario was to increase the upper age, 21, to 23 as is proposed know, I'm aware of several highly promising players that were lost to RL because of short sighted penny pinching mentality of some clubs who then bring over- the- hill, final pension boosting /seeking aussie's to these shores instead of persevering with local talent. I do not exlude my club, Cas, from these criticisms, Sean McVeigh, the legend that is and for ever will be Mr. Rudder and others. A prime case currently are Hull KR/Hull FC who apparently are combining the youth sides, for despite all the rhetoric against it, for no other reason than to save money, yet Humberside is a hot bed of amateur RL
ACADEMY - players under 16 who where chosen from their local amateur clubs and played for the Parent Pro club in a series of matches
U18's Players who trained with the pro club and were in a league of other pro-clubs. Players form the academy graduated into the U18's and were joined by recruits from other clubs and areas.
U21's as above and this was supplemented with first team contracted players who were needing game time.
The falling of the above system was that after 21 the players who were not signed up for a pro-contract were lost to the game at the relatively young age of 21.
The reason for the above being scrapped was
a) cost of running the sides,
b)and the thought that if a player had not shown any ability,talent etc by 21 then he never would
All that was needed with the above scenario was to increase the upper age, 21, to 23 as is proposed know, I'm aware of several highly promising players that were lost to RL because of short sighted penny pinching mentality of some clubs who then bring over- the- hill, final pension boosting /seeking aussie's to these shores instead of persevering with local talent. I do not exlude my club, Cas, from these criticisms, Sean McVeigh, the legend that is and for ever will be Mr. Rudder and others. A prime case currently are Hull KR/Hull FC who apparently are combining the youth sides, for despite all the rhetoric against it, for no other reason than to save money, yet Humberside is a hot bed of amateur RL
Re: reserves
I agree with everything you said but you can't really judge McVeigh who got a career ending injury 5 mins after coming on.
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Re: reserves
I understand the principles behind it and agree in as much that players need time to develop. That is completely understandable and would have allowed us to keep the likes of Brad England no doubt.braytontiger wrote:Your not even close with the 30k salaries,yes there would have to be an initial lay out but in time it would bare fruit. Young players need time and need to gain experiance,duel reg has failed badly for us has a club. players like will maher,Tom Holmes and ash Robson would learn far more playing in a u23s competion against seasoned pros than playing in the 3rd tier against part time players.
However, I don't think it should be another level to add to what we have. The U19s needs to change to U21s+ 3 over-age players.
U16s needs to become U18s
U15s needs to be U16s
U14s stays same.
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Re: reserves
30k a year? There's first teamers who won't be on that.£30k per year
Your point about funds is valid, but if Cas want to remain a Top 6 team and fight for Playoffs then we NEED a reserve team. Injuries happen and we NEED somewhere for players to stay sharp/rehab.
If there'd been a Reserve league this year with Cas in it we'd still have James Clare, maybe would've had a stronger squad to face Hudds yesterday.
It's certainly better than sending them to League 1.
- Andrew6666
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Re: reserves
Would the extra cost to us be worth it? We have done well without it over the last few seasons, my problem with this would be that we would hold onto more youth team players longer than we need too ala Clare, Johnston. I think that if the youth team players don't start to impose themselves on the first team then they aren't likely too. IMO T Holmes needs to be given a good go in the first team, same with Robson, throw him in at full back (his usual position). No point in carrying deadwood - brutal but honest. I think both would go well.
Re: reserves
IMO It would be a good thing to help are team, They don't have to be full time until there ready to step up and we could lower are older 1st team players wages and pay them a coaching salary This could be possible for JW and even AL and LD
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- Andrew6666
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Re: reserves
This is why a reserve team is bad, we would have kept players like Clare, who weren't good enough for SL. I would use the reserve team if we have one to blood our youth against SL experienced players. If the youth players aren't up to it then we release them. I think Cas hold onto too many home grown players when they aren't good enough due to sentiment rather than skill level. Potential should be being fulfilled by a certain youngish age, we can't keep saying it when they get older.Squaddie86 wrote:30k a year? There's first teamers who won't be on that.£30k per year
Your point about funds is valid, but if Cas want to remain a Top 6 team and fight for Playoffs then we NEED a reserve team. Injuries happen and we NEED somewhere for players to stay sharp/rehab.
If there'd been a Reserve league this year with Cas in it we'd still have James Clare, maybe would've had a stronger squad to face Hudds yesterday.
It's certainly better than sending them to League 1.
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Re: reserves
The reserves aren't meant to be a place to keep a 2nd team of Top 4 players (and I think Clare IS Super League quality - Not Top 4, but he contributed significantly to last years cup run and shouldn't be discounted).Andrew6666 wrote: This is why a reserve team is bad, we would have kept players like Clare, who weren't good enough for SL.
That is true, but what do you want from a team with Cas' resources? We're not Wigan, we can't have a reserves team made up entirely of Super League quality players.I would use the reserve team if we have one to blood our youth against SL experienced players. If the youth players aren't up to it then we release them. I think Cas hold onto too many home grown players when they aren't good enough due to sentiment rather than skill level. Potential should be being fulfilled by a certain youngish age, we can't keep saying it when they get older.
What we CAN do is have a team to keep some of the just-below-par players fit in case they're needed to cover injury, a team for the youth to flourish/fall (as per your use for the reserves), and - perhaps most importantly - a place for out-of-favour or recovering-from-injury first teamers to stay/get match fit and prove themselves worthy of getting back in the squad.
That last one is crucial, for 2 years we've seen Daryl Powell trying to rotate players at the start of the season, only to see players completely out of the 17 for months on end (Tansey last year, Dorn this year(admittedly his injury didn't help)), and then be completely not ready when they're needed again.
Cas' won't be winning any Reserve team trophies, but we absolutely need to keep some of the fringe players around - because injuries (or indeed, player scandals resulting in suspension) can come out of nowhere and leave us up a particular creek without any kind of paddle.
Plus, if other teams get proper reserve teams on the go, and we don't, then we're going to fall even further from being a potential top 4 team.
Re: reserves
It appears that the RFL's recent assessment of junior development put us pretty much at the bottom of all the full time clubs & behind the likes of Wakey & Bradford with a warning that our academy needs improvement. Disappointing considering that Cas has always been seen as a hotbed for producing young players.
I don't know where this fits in with a proposed U23s comp- would joining it be seen as part of the required improvement or detract from the already struggling academy?
I don't know where this fits in with a proposed U23s comp- would joining it be seen as part of the required improvement or detract from the already struggling academy?
Re: reserves
Thought cas got a positive rating this year but it's about the facilities not the players and coaching. With the new stadium we need to look at training facilities if there is any money left from selling ground
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Re: reserves
The top 25 players in a Super League squad are generally on 40k plus. Academy kids outside of these may be on peanuts but I'd guess any decent-ish player U23 can drop down and earn more than 15k on a part-time contract with a 2nd job.Squaddie86 wrote:30k a year? There's first teamers who won't be on that.£30k per year
Your point about funds is valid, but if Cas want to remain a Top 6 team and fight for Playoffs then we NEED a reserve team. Injuries happen and we NEED somewhere for players to stay sharp/rehab.
If there'd been a Reserve league this year with Cas in it we'd still have James Clare, maybe would've had a stronger squad to face Hudds yesterday.
It's certainly better than sending them to League 1.
As such, we'd have to inflate their deals to keep them beyond 19, particularly if other clubs come sniffing around who can offer a better all round package.
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Re: reserves
Do we not still have the 20/20 rule?
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