How to beat Cas?? Referee or Opposition??

[TDT]

Cas are all about good go forward from big forwards and quick ball to the backs.

How can a referee stop us winning?

All he has to do is allow the opposition to lay on for 7, 8, 9 seconds without been penalised and for the defense to be 1 to 2 yards in front of the referee several times per set. Our half backs are not very creative and don't provide much without quick ball. If a team is allowed to lie on we have virtually no chance of winning a game. We don't have an alternative game plan, because our half backs aren't quick enough or good enough to creative anything.

Childs can beat us every time he referee's our games, by allowing the opposition to wrestle and hold down. If he had penalised Saints early on last week the game would have been different. I don't think we would have won, but we would certainly have done better. He didn't drop the ball for us or miss the tackles, but he certainly knows what decisions to make to make it difficult for us to play.

[TT Tiger]

You only have to hold down for more than 4 seconds for it to be affective. If you put 4 men in every tackle you can do that with fear of conceding a penalty. One they have hit the deck if the first man takes a second by the time all four players are off the tackled player there is more than enough time to set the defencive line. This is what most teams aim to do. As long as each individual tackler makes an effort to get up you will get away with it 99% of the time. That's gamesmanship rather than cheating. It is something either team can do

[Adelaide Tigurrrr!]

You only have to hold down for more than 4 seconds for it to be affective. If you put 4 men in every tackle you can do that with fear of conceding a penalty. One they have hit the deck if the first man takes a second by the time all four players are off the tackled player there is more than enough time to set the defencive line. This is what most teams aim to do. As long as each individual tackler makes an effort to get up you will get away with it 99% of the time. That's gamesmanship rather than cheating. It is something either team can do

Quite right.

Supporters like TDT watch the game through one eye where everything the opposition does is illegal and Cas never bend the rules. The reality is that some teams - usually the better teams - are very well coached in the art of defence.

Any RL supporter could see that to stop Cas you have to:

1. Move up quickly after the ptb and get in the face of the Cas team.
2. Use 3/4 players in the tackle to stop the offload
3. Keep the tackle moving so as the ref is about to shout held the Cas player is wrestled to the floor giving the defence a few more seconds to get set

It is called good coaching and the better teams have players that are more disciplined and can carry this out. Well within the rules.

And we can do this as well. But in the last few games the whole team has sat back and let teams run at them.

[TigerB33]

Exactly, I know Wigan employ a wrestling coach in the pre season. Teach players how to grapple in the tackle. Before putting the player down. It was very effective a few seasons ago at Huddersfield I think. And McGuire at Wigan was one to take a big disliking to it, in the media anyway.

Simply because done properly it can be very effective. Esspcially against sides who's attack is based on a quick PTB

We seemed to do this very well earlier in the season but now we are struggling. Something I've noticed in the past few games is how much we allow, or are unable to stop the opposition offloading. It puts us on the back foot almost instantly especially if they get quick PTB

[Adelaide Tigurrrr!]

"........... Something I've noticed in the past few games is how much we allow, or are unable to stop the opposition offloading. It puts us on the back foot almost instantly especially if they get quick PTB

In the last 3/4 games i've seen we have only moved up a step or two when defending a ptb. So the opposition is going full tilt and we are standing still. The momentum of the attacking player means that there is more chance that the Cas player will end up on the floor with the attacking player on top. Meaning the attacking team gets a quicker ptb.

Its not rocket science.

[lidds]

Re: offloads I noticed when we played Leeds away they seemed to offload a fair bit. The week after we seemed to wrap the ball up a lot more and got penalised quite a lot for ball steals.

I have also noticed that as the season has gone on when teams defend us they really push up their backs (as hilighted earlier) to limit our wide play. This was especially evident in the cc final) Although it may have just been my view from the sky!. This end up leaving some gaps in the line which I would hope someone like Ben Roberts would be able to expose next year (either by taking on the line or picking out a smart angled pass) this would leave teams a little but less confident a out pushing their wings so hight against us.

Some smarter play needed going forward. And a bit more aggressive / in your face in defence. (well that's my view anyway)

[I of the Tigers]

Agree with most of the above. It's not simply down to whether the opposition now "know how to play / stop us", as posters on some other threads allude to. Of course other teams' & their coaches worth their salt WILL respond, & have clearly done so, but that's no surprise. There have been plenty of times recently when we've had opportunities with ball in hand, but have looked sterile & flat. Earlier in the season Dorn made run after run into & / or through the line with much success, this has just dried up ? Add this to the key fact that we've rarely had any good, sustained field position as our kicking game has been simply terrible. Instead, more & more of every game has been played in our half. The ball has been kept alive by other teams' forwards very well; Saints did it, Catalan actually did it better, as they also did against Leeds last weekend, which was the basis for their victory.

[mdean]

Another current technique which I saw Saint's use a number of times against us, which is not directed just at us, but a great technique I used to use myself.

Usually, a penalty is conceded if the player on the ground is struggling to get to their feet, grabbing/trapping the free wrist of the tackled player prevents them pushing up and makes them look like they're making no effort to gain their feet and that allows another second to get off too.

[TDT]

I don't think the world is against us, but I do think that teams are been allowed far more time in the tackle than they should be. Based on how the game was refereed for the first two thirds of the season, Cas would have been awarded many more penalties in the games against Catalan and Saints.

If the letter of the law was applied and we were allowed to play the ball quicker we would have competed better.

[orrsome]

I don't think the world is against us, but I do think that teams are been allowed far more time in the tackle than they should be. Based on how the game was refereed for the first two thirds of the season, Cas would have been awarded many more penalties in the games against Catalan and Saints.

If the letter of the law was applied and we were allowed to play the ball quicker we would have competed better.

I happened to see a match on Premier Sports the other week between South Sydney And the Roosters. I noticed that at every tackle one of the Ref's was standing over the tacklers telling them to get up and watching that they weren't trying to hold or dislodge the ball. This resulted in a much quicker play of the ball and because the other Ref was getting the defending team back the full 10, the game flowed much better than the majority of SL games do.
Our Ref's have to get the defenders back AND shout for the tacklers to get up but cannot be close enough to see what tricks are going on in the tackle.
I wasn't that keen on having 2 Ref's prior to watching that game, but if this is how they operate, it can only be good for the game.

[TDT]

I agree. Most of the NRL games I watch are much quicker than SL games. They wrestle and are good at delaying, but would never get away with what teams are allowed to do currently in SL.

Problem is we only have a handful of half decent referee's, so we've no chance of two ref's.

[Frankas]

We haven't been moving up in the tackle in the last few games, all season we have been in the opponents faces when we were defending, but against Catalan, and Saints we seemed to be stuck on the ten, letting them run at us. If we don't get into the Warrington's players faces from the off, Thursday night will be a long night for our fans, and the ref wont have much of an influence ever way.

[billy tiger]

how many times do you blame refs watch both sides not just one

[old cas lass]

how many times do you blame refs watch both sides not just one

Everyone cant be wrong.

[old cas lass]

Here is the explanation by bentham on the forward pass for o'briens try and the ball strip by shenton.

Pass for O'Brien try looks fine. Ball steal by Shenton is correct - look at the left hand of Shenton force the ball out. PB


Never wrong hey.

[alftupper]

how many times do you blame refs watch both sides not just one

If you're looking for reasoned impartial opinions try the BBC or Independent because you certainly will not find any on here. This site has got worse which I didn't think was possible with most posters exhibiting varying degrees of paranoia.

In the aftermath of the Wembley final defeat not once did I hear any mention of Luke Dorns outrageous forward pass which led directly to Holmes' try, a try which I might add was against the run of play and flattered the scoreline in our favour - I'm convinced that if the referee or linesman had not missed it we would have suffered a much bigger defeat.

Also whisper it quietly and I know I risk a ban for voicing these facts on here but the penalty count was in our favour that particular match.

[Tamworth Tiger]

Nice to have your balance and objectivity back Alf.

[I of the Tigers]

Also whisper it quietly and I know I risk a ban for voicing these facts on here but the penalty count was in our favour that particular match.

Where can one find such stats for "that particular match" ?