Shameful

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Re: Shameful

Post by TT Tiger » 12 Aug 2014, 00:04

When they invaded after the score the steward should have taken notice of that as a warning as what was to come

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Re: Shameful

Post by KB80 » 12 Aug 2014, 00:48

Read a post from a widnes fan on their forum detailing the full goings on he sounds genuinely gutted at the scenes.

I note from reading his account the police including mounted units stood by whilst fans threw bottles at the cas team bus. At this point they should have ensured they has the resources they needed as this indicated the likelihood of trouble later and ensured the fans identified didn't gain entry to the stadium. It seems they did neither. ..

Apparently stewards were threatened in the widnes end early on in the game following the release of smoke bombs. Again the police should have seen this as an indicator and numberEd up in this area.

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Re: Shameful

Post by Ish.man » 12 Aug 2014, 07:13

Either way, and that small minority of fans were to blame, could have been defused quicker with better policing. Stewards haven't got a specific training on what to do. Just glad it wasn't us, the bus that got bottleneck cans thrown at it at 1400 at the beginning, was a combat indicator, I the same lads that were to blame were the same ones who threw all that and generated the trouble. The police should have stepped in then and calmed it down. A CAS fan a women was hit by a can, it was shocking and in the end we as a family had to move from the pub garden, police just sat there and made no attempt to defuse it. I love the banter I love the noise but been called a Yorkshire pedophile and it been chanted at you was just plain pathetic. As an individual I demand more respect then that.
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Re: Shameful

Post by I of the Tigers » 12 Aug 2014, 08:39

Better policing? Just policing! The more you hear & read about events across the whole of Sunday then it makes you wonder what this country has become. We'll never get to know the content (I guess), but the police report to the RFL will make for interesting reading. Seemingly no structure, no leadership, no authority shown whatsoever. End of. No great in Britain anymore ... & until it returns to the days where people were carted off, banged up & seriously paid the consequences, without all the PC namby-pambying, the idiots will continue on their merry way.

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Re: Shameful

Post by da_jimbob_7 » 12 Aug 2014, 09:06

Flat Capper wrote:Having now watched my recording of the game it appears the stewards were massed in front of the Cas fans with about 20 to go with very few at the Widnes end. This is highlighted when Widnes score and fans enter the pitch.

I'm guessing they thought the victorious fans would invade but sadly got it wrong.

Exactly, we had a wall of stewards in front of us, yet barely any at the other end.
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Re: Shameful

Post by I of the Tigers » 06 Oct 2014, 18:15

8 weeks yesterday since the Widnes idiots strutted their stuff ... I saw a "holding" statement a couple of weeks ago saying inquiries were ongoing, but just how much longer will it take the authorities to conclude that sorry episode I wonder? :roll:

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Re: Shameful

Post by I of the Tigers » 10 Nov 2014, 10:34

I of the Tigers wrote:8 weeks yesterday since the Widnes idiots strutted their stuff ... I saw a "holding" statement a couple of weeks ago saying inquiries were ongoing, but just how much longer will it take the authorities to conclude that sorry episode I wonder? :roll:
I could be the first to quote myself ... and another month just drifts by ](*,)

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Re: Shameful

Post by yorky » 10 Nov 2014, 10:38

well now that they are "SUPER LEAGUE TEAM OF THE YEAR" who are we to ask why they haven't been punished yet for ruining our semi final celebrations & such disgraceful acts of shear thuggery!

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Re: Shameful

Post by old cas lass » 10 Nov 2014, 10:41

Just left a message on twitter with the RFL asking why its dragging on.
I think anyone else who as twitter to do the same.
I think they need a little reminder, we haven't forgotten.

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Re: Shameful

Post by Grumpy » 10 Nov 2014, 11:09

Well done Old Cas Lass, I am 100% behind you and will Twitter the RFL too. I would urge everybody else to do the same and keep there's sure on.

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Re: Shameful

Post by Grumpy » 10 Nov 2014, 11:12

Should have said keep the pressure on (damn this predictable spell thing)

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Re: Shameful

Post by Danny Boy » 10 Nov 2014, 14:30

It was shameful and disgusting, but I still maintain that the Widnes club should not be blamed for a mindless minority of their support. How can they have any impact, other than banning the perpetrators from future games?

After the semi final, genuine Widnes fans were going out of their way to apologise, how bad must it have made them feel, losing their biggest game in years and then see the scum (who certainly are not genuine supporters), make them feel even worse and drag the good name of their club further into the gutter.

We have a very small number of individuals who every so often act in a mindless manner (although to date nothing as bad as was seen at the semi final) but does that mean our club and the 99% of supporters who are well behaved should have to pay for the actions of a moronic few?

I believe that we should get behind the Widnes club and maybe then if, God forbid, anything of this nature happens to us in the future, our club will be treated fairly by the RFL and our fellow clubs, unlike in the past when we have been very harshly treated by the men from Redhall.
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Re: Shameful

Post by Casmania » 10 Nov 2014, 16:11

Danny Boy wrote:It was shameful and disgusting, but I still maintain that the Widnes club should not be blamed for a mindless minority of their support. How can they have any impact, other than banning the perpetrators from future games?

After the semi final, genuine Widnes fans were going out of their way to apologise, how bad must it have made them feel, losing their biggest game in years and then see the scum (who certainly are not genuine supporters), make them feel even worse and drag the good name of their club further into the gutter.

We have a very small number of individuals who every so often act in a mindless manner (although to date nothing as bad as was seen at the semi final) but does that mean our club and the 99% of supporters who are well behaved should have to pay for the actions of a moronic few?

I believe that we should get behind the Widnes club and maybe then if, God forbid, anything of this nature happens to us in the future, our club will be treated fairly by the RFL and our fellow clubs, unlike in the past when we have been very harshly treated by the men from Redhall.

Spot on Danny Boy

Just to add, Widnes were club of the year and not team of the year, if it was team of the year then Cas would have walked it. Widnes have done good work with their community foundation and youth development with player pathways etc it would be a shame if all that hardwork was overlooked because of the actions of a mindless minority.
I too believe that in the past Castleford Tigers - as Danny Boy has already posted- have been treated harshly. That is hard to take. It is understandable that some are questioning the timescale of the investigation process. However, I would prefer them to take the time required as opposed to knee-jerk reactions resulting in further 'harsh treatment'

Personally I hope the mindless idiots are named and shamed, prosecuted and banned from attending further RL matches for a very long time. As to what action may be taken against Widnes, there is no easy answer to that one. What blame can be apportioned to Widnes? Yes, it was their fans, but it wasn't at their ground or indeed their stewarding of the game.
It will be interesting as to the outcome of the investigation.
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Re: Shameful

Post by I of the Tigers » 10 Nov 2014, 16:19

Great posts Danny Boy & Casmania :clap:
It will be very interesting to see what the outcome is ... my real grouse is that surely enough time has now lapsed (13 weeks yesterday), for a conclusion to be reached & findings, etc. made public.

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Re: Shameful

Post by Frankas » 10 Nov 2014, 18:03

In some ways I agree but you can't treat one club different to another, we got a massive fine for a few mindless kids chanting, and we got a 40 grand fine to ease someone's feelings, although there wasn't any proof the incident took place.

has for the Widnes fans who took to the field trying to incite a riot, but luckily for the RFL, the Cas fans didn't bite, The majority of the fans who invaded the field had Widnes shirts on, or bare chested waving their shirts about, plus a large black and white flag and assaulted the mascot.

They were Widnes fans! they came from the Widnes stand, so bought there tickets from Widnes, whether they were thugs or not, if the RFL don't show consistency in the way they deal with them. Unlike the Cas incident where no proof was needed to fine us,there is loads of TV evidence for this incident , what wasn't just a pitch invasion what is illegal in our sport, there was also evidence of GBH, toward the young lad in the Tiger suite
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Re: Shameful

Post by yorky » 10 Nov 2014, 18:10

Frankas wrote:In some ways I agree but you can't treat one club different to another, we got a massive fine for a few mindless kids chanting, and we got a 40 grand fine to ease someone's feelings, although there wasn't any proof the incident took place.

has for the Widnes fans who took to the field trying to incite a riot, but luckily for the RFL, the Cas fans didn't bite, The majority of the fans who invaded the field had Widnes shirts on, or bare chested waving their shirts about, plus a large black and white flag and assaulted the mascot.

They were Widnes fans! they came from the Widnes stand, so bought there tickets from Widnes, whether they were thugs or not, if the RFL don't show consistency in the way they deal with them. Unlike the Cas incident where no proof was needed to fine us,there is loads of TV evidence for this incident , what wasn't just a pitch invasion what is illegal in our sport, there was also evidence of GBH, toward the young lad in the Tiger suite
spot on!!!

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Re: Shameful

Post by the machine » 10 Nov 2014, 19:20

yorky wrote:
Frankas wrote:In some ways I agree but you can't treat one club different to another, we got a massive fine for a few mindless kids chanting, and we got a 40 grand fine to ease someone's feelings, although there wasn't any proof the incident took place.

has for the Widnes fans who took to the field trying to incite a riot, but luckily for the RFL, the Cas fans didn't bite, The majority of the fans who invaded the field had Widnes shirts on, or bare chested waving their shirts about, plus a large black and white flag and assaulted the mascot.

They were Widnes fans! they came from the Widnes stand, so bought there tickets from Widnes, whether they were thugs or not, if the RFL don't show consistency in the way they deal with them. Unlike the Cas incident where no proof was needed to fine us,there is loads of TV evidence for this incident , what wasn't just a pitch invasion what is illegal in our sport, there was also evidence of GBH, toward the young lad in the Tiger suite
spot on!!!
was the fine solely for the thomas incident though? Wasnt it also partly to do with bottles been thrown on pitch against catalan??
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Re: Shameful

Post by Casmania » 10 Nov 2014, 19:33

Frankas wrote:In some ways I agree but you can't treat one club different to another, we got a massive fine for a few mindless kids chanting, and we got a 40 grand fine to ease someone's feelings, although there wasn't any proof the incident took place.

has for the Widnes fans who took to the field trying to incite a riot, but luckily for the RFL, the Cas fans didn't bite, The majority of the fans who invaded the field had Widnes shirts on, or bare chested waving their shirts about, plus a large black and white flag and assaulted the mascot.

They were Widnes fans! they came from the Widnes stand, so bought there tickets from Widnes, whether they were thugs or not, if the RFL don't show consistency in the way they deal with them. Unlike the Cas incident where no proof was needed to fine us,there is loads of TV evidence for this incident , what wasn't just a pitch invasion what is illegal in our sport, there was also evidence of GBH, toward the young lad in the Tiger suite
The club were fined £40,000 with £20,000 suspended, unfortunately we still had a £20,000 suspended fine hanging over our heads due to the idiots who threw bottles on the pitch the previous season, hence having to pay £40,000 in total - this eventually was reduced on appeal.
Sadly Frankas, the RFL did have proof, both audio and witness statements of the 3 incidences of chanting.
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Re: Shameful

Post by Casmania » 10 Nov 2014, 21:02

I of the Tigers wrote:Great posts Danny Boy & Casmania :clap:
It will be very interesting to see what the outcome is ... my real grouse is that surely enough time has now lapsed (13 weeks yesterday), for a conclusion to be reached & findings, etc. made public.
It is frustrating, but the RFL have had to liaise with both Widnes and Castleford, Leigh sporting village, external stewarding company and the police. To put things into context, it took about 13 weeks before Cas were informed of the RFL's investigation.
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Re: Shameful

Post by HuddsTigers » 10 Nov 2014, 21:12

Whilst I agree with the previous comments the things that me that have to be taken into consideration is:

*No incident is preventable unless they have intelligence from hooligans saying they're going to do it and then clubs can put measures in place. Only hooligans lacking in braincells would publicise it.

*Secondly, how you deal with incidents in the aftermath is the key issue.

Looking back, it wasn't the chanting that we were punished for but the retrospective actions we took as a result of it. Despite this, the club took measures by installing CCTV, setting up the texting line, playing 'rugby league is a family game' every 10 mins, putting extra stewarding in there and I believe, even banning some of the culprits.

In the first point, you can't ridicule Cas and say it was deserving and then defend Widnes saying it was outside of their control. You're right, it wasn't at Widnes under their control, however, they have had instances in the past at grounds where their fans have been involved in altercations - at Wakefield I believe.

Both Cas and Widnes had no foresight of the incidents happening and in both cases had no way of preventing it. However, Widnes HAVE had foresight of the punishment Cas got and look to do everything possible quickly in attempt quell any fine. In essence, we were a guinea pig case that all clubs can go out and do better than us to try and mitigate any punishment. Sorry but I don't agree with that and that isn't really fair. We were fined and so should Widnes. But equally so should Leigh Sporting Village and the stewards.

What I believe should happen is:
*Widnes fined £10k with £10k suspended in that it was their fans and clearly they had previous instances where some of their fans had been tools which meant they could have given some sort of pre-warning about what may occur. Clubs should share intelligence with each other about their fanbases to ensure troublemakers can be caught. It happens in football in co-operation with local police.

The £10k compensation - £5k should go to Castleford as a gesture of goodwill for distress caused and the spoiling of the occasion. The other £5k should go to something like RL Cares or the Steve Prescott Fund.

*Alcohol ban for one year for all travelling Widnes fans. This is easy to enforce in stadiums where segregation is in place. At our ground it's more difficult but there may be ways that both clubs can work around this.

* Leigh Sports Village to be reprimanded and told that no high profile games (Cup ties, internationals) will be held there for a five year period until they illustrate how they have improved safety and taken measures to prevent such issues occurring in the future. Should Leigh get into SL then this will be reviewed on a case by case basis, as will all Super 8 play-off games.

Unfortunately, we can't do much about the stewarding but that's an issue for LSV to take up and sort out.
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