Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

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Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 27 Feb 2018, 20:14

Please post in the correct section in future!
Hi you guys interested in this topic of Brexit (Aren't we all !),

It was very interesting to see both speeches yesterday and today and what can be made from them.

My take (which won't suit all), is that Corbyn has destroyed his credibility on what he has always stood for and he has been puppeteered by those labour forces behind him. This Corbyn speech harks back to backward Stone Age thinking, relying on how business has always been done in tying us to the Customs Union and most likely single market and no forward thinking whatsoever. He is tying Britain to the EU's Noah's Ark (it's obsolete) ready to flounder and take us down with them.

Focus is always on the risk of coming out of the EU when no one is asking the risk of staying in the EU with southern EU countries going bankrupt and guess who bales them out with more contribution !! I think this is a cynical play to gain power through splitting the remainers on the blue side and forcing an election - how do you explain Corbyn changing his views he's always had ! Staying in the Customs Union - give me a break !

Listening to Liam Fox's speech based on like what he says, that 90% of world growth this next 15 years will be outside the EU as independantly stated from developing countries, shows the reason why we need to move out and be streamlined to go after this growth and ultimately prosper in the long run. I'd rather be on the Starship Enterprise than Noah's Ark anytime !! We need to get into the age of coming prosperity not tied to a slowly going bankrupt cartel in Brussels who have never released their accounts and take great pride in bossing us around - funny that !!

We as a nation need to grow a pair and knuckle down to some hard work to make it work and some give and take needs to be applied (especially on the Irish border) - True it won't be easy over the next few years but the risk and hit we have to take over these next few years will, I believe, be worth it.

EU needs is more than we need them and they will come around to giving us a special relationship and access - its a cert !

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by onetiger » 27 Feb 2018, 21:30

we should have stayed in eu but cameron did not have a clue how to work with the eu
on a better deal ...

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 27 Feb 2018, 21:39

Very good politics from Corbyn, could end the government so full credit to him from me.

The tories are boxed in.
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 27 Feb 2018, 21:57

WF10 wrote:Very good politics from Corbyn, could end the government so full credit to him from me.

The tories are boxed in.

Yes well I expected that type of response from you judging from what you have made in the past - short sighted, lilly livered and anything to get Labour back in rather than study out what is best - you labour people who voted in favour to leave in these northern british areas who would rather vote Corbyn in to take you back in to the EU - now that takes the biscuit doesn't it !!!! Hypocritical or what !!

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 27 Feb 2018, 22:25

CasRus wrote:
WF10 wrote:Very good politics from Corbyn, could end the government so full credit to him from me.

The tories are boxed in.

Yes well I expected that type of response from you judging from what you have made in the past - short sighted, lilly livered and anything to get Labour back in rather than study out what is best - you labour people who voted in favour to leave in these northern british areas who would rather vote Corbyn in to take you back in to the EU - now that takes the biscuit doesn't it !!!! Hypocritical or what !!
And a happy 2018 to you!
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 27 Feb 2018, 22:30

By the way, it's not good politics as Corbyn may lose a lot of support from the true Labour Brexiters who have principles if it comes to an election - it will certainly be interesting if it does result in an election - Happy 2018 to you also - I missed you !

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 28 Feb 2018, 13:30

CasRus wrote:
WF10 wrote:Very good politics from Corbyn, could end the government so full credit to him from me.

The tories are boxed in.

Yes well I expected that type of response from you judging from what you have made in the past - short sighted, lilly livered and anything to get Labour back in rather than study out what is best - you labour people who voted in favour to leave in these northern british areaswho would rather vote Corbyn in to take you back in to the EU - now that takes the biscuit doesn't it !!!! Hypocritical or what !!
Most of the people who fall into this category, who I have spoken to, voted 'leave' as they thought it may cause the government to fall.

Short-sighted eh?
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by Flat Capper » 28 Feb 2018, 13:47

It's a bit rich to suggest Corbyn has changed his mind on this when you consider the fact good old Teresa May (or may not) has performed more U turns than the average taxi driver on Westgate on a Saturday night.

The facts are that whilst you feel pulling out of the EU will give us greater control over our destiny, in reality we have very little or no manufacturing base left in this country so we will have to rely on someone to supply us in the short to medium term.

Whilst there is a whole world out there to try an strike deals with, as a relatively small country (and therefore market) those we seek deals with will not see us as a priority. Their priority is to strike deals with the much larger and wealthier EU community who work together for the betterment of their members. They have far more negotiating power than we do. This is likely to lead to higher prices for goods and materials.

As the internet shopping market expands the cost of goods in this country will be overshadowed by cheaper foreign goods that can be posted here at the click of a button.

I've often heard the Brexit argument of yes, but they need to sell their goods to us but the fact is, we both need to and want to buy them. I can only see us paying extra for the privilege.

Like it or not, gone are the days when we controlled half the countries on the planet, taking what resources we needed with little regard of the impact on those countries - the Empire has gone and we have nothing to bargain with.

The whole concept of Brexit is a Tory right wing ploy to de-regulate the laws that protect us so they can make a killing.
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by Bramley Tiger » 28 Feb 2018, 14:40

corbyn has shown his true colours.i don't want to hear any he's a man of principle crap as he'll do anything and promise anything to get into power.the vote was to leave the eu not be told to think again by elitist mps and business people who are professional troughers and have vested interests in remaining.hope it backfires on the Islington champagne socialists and they are given a kicking at the ballot boxes.

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 28 Feb 2018, 15:08

Bramley Tiger wrote:corbyn has shown his true colours.i don't want to hear any he's a man of principle crap as he'll do anything and promise anything to get into power.the vote was to leave the eu not be told to think again by elitist mps and business people who are professional troughers and have vested interests in remaining.hope it backfires on the Islington champagne socialists and they are given a kicking at the ballot boxes.
Get this - Corbyn's 'capitulation'/'shift'/'u-turn' whatever you want to term it, was in the 2017 general election manifesto https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotia ... xit/#first

but you crack on mate.
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 28 Feb 2018, 18:23

Flat Capper wrote:It's a bit rich to suggest Corbyn has changed his mind on this when you consider the fact good old Teresa May (or may not) has performed more U turns than the average taxi driver on Westgate on a Saturday night.

The facts are that whilst you feel pulling out of the EU will give us greater control over our destiny, in reality we have very little or no manufacturing base left in this country so we will have to rely on someone to supply us in the short to medium term.

Whilst there is a whole world out there to try an strike deals with, as a relatively small country (and therefore market) those we seek deals with will not see us as a priority. Their priority is to strike deals with the much larger and wealthier EU community who work together for the betterment of their members. They have far more negotiating power than we do. This is likely to lead to higher prices for goods and materials.

As the internet shopping market expands the cost of goods in this country will be overshadowed by cheaper foreign goods that can be posted here at the click of a button.

I've often heard the Brexit argument of yes, but they need to sell their goods to us but the fact is, we both need to and want to buy them. I can only see us paying extra for the privilege.

Like it or not, gone are the days when we controlled half the countries on the planet, taking what resources we needed with little regard of the impact on those countries - the Empire has gone and we have nothing to bargain with.

The whole concept of Brexit is a Tory right wing ploy to de-regulate the laws that protect us so they can make a killing.
This response makes my blood boil !!!

I have never seen a more negative response about little old Great Britain being classed as a has been country - we are in the top 10 in the world so what you are saying is total claptrap.

There is a MASSIVE opportunity with the expertise this country has to cash in on the digital age, green technology and all new tech that is coming in cars and going into outer space just to mention a few which the world is on the cusp of moving forward with.

Listening to you, we would still be digging coal out of the ground for a living ! Or is that you are happy to settle on so long as the state look after and provide for you ?

We have the best Uni's in the world and produce some brilliant talent who will generate the future ideas we can cash in with

Get Real! - The world is moving on and we don't need to have our hands tied behind our backs with the EU who are sniggering behind our back as to the amount we pay in and get bossed around on top of that and I predict the EU will collapse so long as we come come out that is - It's a failed project - Even Macron when he was over here said that if France had a referendum, they would vote to come out also ! That tells you so much about the state of the EU !

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 28 Feb 2018, 19:53

CasRus wrote:
Flat Capper wrote:It's a bit rich to suggest Corbyn has changed his mind on this when you consider the fact good old Teresa May (or may not) has performed more U turns than the average taxi driver on Westgate on a Saturday night.

The facts are that whilst you feel pulling out of the EU will give us greater control over our destiny, in reality we have very little or no manufacturing base left in this country so we will have to rely on someone to supply us in the short to medium term.

Whilst there is a whole world out there to try an strike deals with, as a relatively small country (and therefore market) those we seek deals with will not see us as a priority. Their priority is to strike deals with the much larger and wealthier EU community who work together for the betterment of their members. They have far more negotiating power than we do. This is likely to lead to higher prices for goods and materials.

As the internet shopping market expands the cost of goods in this country will be overshadowed by cheaper foreign goods that can be posted here at the click of a button.

I've often heard the Brexit argument of yes, but they need to sell their goods to us but the fact is, we both need to and want to buy them. I can only see us paying extra for the privilege.

Like it or not, gone are the days when we controlled half the countries on the planet, taking what resources we needed with little regard of the impact on those countries - the Empire has gone and we have nothing to bargain with.

The whole concept of Brexit is a Tory right wing ploy to de-regulate the laws that protect us so they can make a killing.
This response makes my blood boil !!!

I have never seen a more negative response about little old Great Britain being classed as a has been country - we are in the top 10 in the world so what you are saying is total claptrap.

There is a MASSIVE opportunity with the expertise this country has to cash in on the digital age, green technology and all new tech that is coming in cars and going into outer space just to mention a few which the world is on the cusp of moving forward with.

Listening to you, we would still be digging coal out of the ground for a living ! Or is that you are happy to settle on so long as the state look after and provide for you ?

We have the best Uni's in the world and produce some brilliant talent who will generate the future ideas we can cash in with

Get Real! - The world is moving on and we don't need to have our hands tied behind our backs with the EU who are sniggering behind our back as to the amount we pay in and get bossed around on top of that and I predict the EU will collapse so long as we come come out that is - It's a failed project - Even Macron when he was over here said that if France had a referendum, they would vote to come out also ! That tells you so much about the state of the EU !
LOL @ this guy!

In the top 10 in the world based on what?

Cars going into space means we're moving forward? We sent a monkey into space in the 40's!

The best uni's in the world with lecturers going on strike.

And for the record, Mr Capper mentioned manufacturing, a secondary industry, not 'digging coal' which would be an example of a primary industry. Still, its not like you to twist what someone actually says to suit an ill-informed rant :D
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 28 Feb 2018, 20:12

Yes mate well you still go listen to all the big businesses tied into the EU getting rich while all the thousands of small business trying to make it through EU red tape and who employ thousands who could provide infinately more jobs based on their experience and ideas - You need to become extinct with the Dinosaurs just like Corbyn and confined to History !!

Best to try and not try at all - that's how you get on in life and not rest on your Coal Pick !!!

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 28 Feb 2018, 21:25

CasRus wrote:Yes mate well you still go listen to all the big businesses tied into the EU getting rich while all the thousands of small business trying to make it through EU red tape and who employ thousands who could provide infinately more jobs based on their experience and ideas - You need to become extinct with the Dinosaurs just like Corbyn and confined to History !!

Best to try and not try at all - that's how you get on in life and not rest on your Coal Pick !!!
So big businesses don't employ thousands? Big businesses don't have experience and ideas?

And presumably what you're getting at is that small businesses aren't able to trade with EU neighbour nations - but will be able to trade successfully with countries on the other side of the planet, without a hitch?
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 28 Feb 2018, 21:51

It is already been established that 90% of economic trade over the next 15 years will be outside the EU. EU has so much red tape that frustrates small businesses to the Nth degree and costs time and much more money to achieve the end result business, so yes I will say as all small businesses say that it will be much easier to trade with the rest of the world and have 90% trade to target rather than the shrinking markets of the EU - Now that makes total sense to me ! Asian and African markets who need [REMOVED] of infrastructure are the future markets to aim for don't you think !
I do not dispute that big business do employ thousands but when you see how many are ducking and diving on paying tax and paying themselves extortionate amounts of money in salaries at the top and on poor performances and then raiding pension pots (remember that fat toe-rag Phillip Green !! corporate stealing and should be in jail instead of paying cash for a mega yacht) - Id rather have small businesses loyal to their work force succeed and break up these monopolistic conglomerates.

We as a nation have become too cushy and inward looking being in the EU - It's time to break free - We are "Great" Britain and we need to believe in the word that describes us ! We have a Major Opportunity right now and we shouldn't let this go past us as France and Germany will pick up the ball later and we are most definately then out of the game - If and when we come out of the EU, The EU is finished - it won't survive so we need to get into world trade first - it will be a travesty if we don't

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by Aid » 01 Mar 2018, 00:28

CasRus wrote:By the way, it's not good politics as Corbyn may lose a lot of support from the true Labour Brexiters who have principles if it comes to an election - it will certainly be interesting if it does result in an election - Happy 2018 to you also - I missed you !
Hate to bring FACTS in to this debate, BUT, about 2.6 million Labour voters voted to LEAVE the EU, Whilst 3.2 million Conservative voters voted to REMAIN in the EU. So why don't we hear more about May etc betraying her voters!
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by CasRus » 01 Mar 2018, 00:50

This is dead easy to answer - It's called DEMOCRACY !

May is carrying out the will of the people where most people voted to come out. If you don't go with democracy and democratic votes then you become a dictator and we all know what happens then like with all Dictators !

This is where Corbyn should be standing up for democracy and not WEASELING in trying to get into Downing Street through the Back Door - If he was in no 10 already he would be going for a hard brexit but he is spending his time finding ways to dislodge May irrespective of his labour voter supports wishes - a hypocrite !

He should stand aside and let May get on with it and give support - Once it's done we can then all revert to what party we wish to vote for in the next election based on other persuasions of what people want - Brexit is too important to disrupt and if they all sung off the same song sheet, we would be getting one hell of a deal from the EU - all this remoaning is playing into the EU's hands ! Personally I don't mind who is in power but the most important thing to get done now is Brexit to get this country running as it should be, so let the Blues get on with it ! Reds can have their day at a later time.

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by alftupper » 01 Mar 2018, 09:49

WF10 wrote:
In the top 10 in the world based on what?
Last time I checked we were in the G7

Cappers description of us being a ‘relatively small country’ is comtemptable and is a prime example of how the left continually talk this country down

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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by Flat Capper » 01 Mar 2018, 14:31

I find it really interesting that in spite of the fact the Brexitiers are finally going to get what they want (isolation) they still feel the need to rant and rave.

An old saying but very apt, me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Anyway, just to clarify the Labour party position, deliver the public's wish to leave the EU but retain a customs union that protects business and workers.

As for red tape, imagine how that will look when we have to complete countless documents just to trade with our near neighbours and cross their individual borders.

On another note, Red China seems to be doing quite well.
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Re: Brexit -Corbyn versus Fox Speeches

Post by WF10 » 01 Mar 2018, 14:34

I love how 'Great' Britain means things are automatically 'great', I suppose things aren't recycled in 'New' Zealand?
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