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Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:12 am
by WF10
I can't understand the naivety of some people who thought we'd be able to walk away from the union yet continue to receive the benefits of it.
Who in their right minds thought we'd be able to leave with absolutely no penalties?

Further, now it looks like like we'll have a 'remainer' as the person in charge of the exit negotiations as we've all been led to believe that the 'leaver' in charge of the opposition is an inept negotiator/debator. So inept that she's refusing to engage him in a live debate for fears that he'll wipe the floor with her.

Modern politics is being played out in the media rather than focusing on policy. Whoever has the most media-savvy staff will win as the idiots in this country do what the papers and 'news' outlets tell them, despite it being against their best interests.

The fascists behind all this (the rise of the populist right) must be laughing their peckers off at how they have got so many gullible working class people to do their dirty work for them at the ballot boxes.

The phrase is - Turkeys voting for [REMOVED] Xmas.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:39 am
by CasRus
Well I think most people know that Brexit is no walk in the park and we will be poorer for it in the short term and thats the price to be paid to extract us from a Cartel in Brussels who have been laughing all the way to the bank on us and now trying to bully us into submission and scare the sh.t out of us ! You can only judge on who is heading up each party and the team behind them. I for one see the Blue Camp having more cohesion even though they squabble between themselves to carry Britain to better times while the red camp in comparison look like a bunch of amateurs ! - just look at them trying to remove their leader who has no backing from his team ! We are not a country of his vision and while N.Korea is testing nuclear he is trying to remove ours - what a joke ! We cannot disarm unless and until every country disarms - FACT ! The red camp want to throw billions at our services - where is the money coming from ? I'll tell you, huge borrowing which has us paying interest for the next 100 years and very possibly bankrupting the country ! We have to increase our business and trade first with new trade agreements and not be stymied by the EU to generate money and pay for things we can afford and also cut out all the huge monetary waste that goes on in our services like the NHS and make it more efficient. This is the most common sense approach as I see it and people have to be patient for a number of years to make this happen. Anyoone who has gone through a divorce will tell you that it hurts for a while and become poorer for it, but don't die from it and we eventually recover and get on with building a future for the better - It's the same with Brexit, No Pain No Gain ! I can see JC will be removed and I tip that Yvette Cooper is a very strong possibility of leading once this election is over - A credible leader that will provide a strong opposition for the next election and where domestic issues can then be fought over - I Just think Brexit is too important for now and see a strong direction in the blue corner and a bunch of jackasses in the other until they sort themselves out - I know its hard to swallow for the swathes of people in our district but if we can all think logically for now and then await the next election to fall back to what each person then wants from their political persuasion and see the state of affairs then common sense may prevail as most people did vote for Brexit in the North and if they can understand that fact and vote for who can carry this out most effectively, then my opinion is that there is only one choice for now. Tim Farron of the Liberals might just as well bend over with his trousers folded neatly over his right arm and let Brussels have the pleasure of shafting him if he ever got the pleasure of negotiating for us ! Well let's see what Fireworks I probably now have created in response to my opinion as usual...ha ha !! It's fun to get jousting with opinions !

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:50 am
by WF10
Where to start with this.
CasRus wrote:Well I think most people know that Brexit is no walk in the park and we will be poorer for it in the short term and thats the price to be paid to extract us from a Cartel in Brussels who have been laughing all the way to the bank on us and now trying to bully us into submission and scare the sh.t out of us !


That's the price of being in a union: security, safety and guaranteed trade. The £350million per week we spend/spent on EU membership has now been spent on the NHS hasn't it? Right oh.

CasRus wrote:You can only judge on who is heading up each party and the team behind them. I for one see the Blue Camp having more cohesion even though they squabble between themselves to carry Britain to better times while the red camp in comparison look like a bunch of amateurs ! - just look at them trying to remove their leader who has no backing from his team !


This is true because that war mongering former leader lurched Labour so far to the right that even Corbyn's centre-left policies see him labelled as a 'loony lefty' by the plp and the media. Which simply isn't true https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europ ... qus_thread

From his style to his policies Mr Corbyn would, in Norway, be an unremarkably mainstream, run-of-the-mill social-democrat. His policy-platform places him squarely in the Norwegian Labour Party from which the last leader is such a widely respected establishment figure that upon resignation he became the current Secretary-General of NATO.
Yet, here in the United Kingdom a politician who makes similar policy-proposals, indeed those that form the very bedrock of the Nordic-model, is brandished as an extremist of the hard-left and a danger to society.
So who is right? Is the Norwegian Labour movement some dangerous extremist group that unknowingly has occupied the furthest leftist fringe of the political spectrum? If so, a casual glance at the UN’s Human Development Index would suggest that Norway certainly has not suffered as a result of successive Labour-dominated governments. Or is it, perhaps, that the British media’s portrayal of Corbyn, and by extent his policies are somewhat exaggerated and verging on the realm of character assassination rather than objective analysis and journalism?
It is probably not without reason that a recent report by the European Broadcasting Union found that the United Kingdom among all of the EU member-states (+Albania, FYROM & Turkey) scores the lowest in levels of trust in written media.

CasRus wrote:We are not a country of his vision and while N.Korea is testing nuclear he is trying to remove ours - what a joke ! We cannot disarm unless and until every country disarms - FACT !


Writing fact in capital letters doesn't make it a fact. Someone has to be first. What is the point of Trident though - if it is a deterrent you can't use it offensively, because the deterrent aspect is being abused, and if it is in retaliation, then the deterrent hasn't worked. He (and probably every sane person on the planet) would rather save lives than kill, yet he's portrayed as a madman?!

CasRus wrote:The red camp want to throw billions at our services - where is the money coming from ? I'll tell you, huge borrowing which has us paying interest for the next 100 years and very possibly bankrupting the country !


So we've got cuts to education resulting in schools drastically cutting back on resources to the point where qualified teachers are being let go. The NHS is crippled through lack of funding, we have children in this country growing up in poverty and record numbers relying on food banks and this doesn't need investing in? The leaked labour manifesto says that it'll be raised through increasing corporation tax, companies paying more tax on their profits. Whereas the tories want to lower corporation tax (so the rich get richer) creating a 'trickle down' economy.

I'll leave you with this: with the current situation of people - if you have £1 and starving, you don't buy a pair of sunglasses.

£205 billion to renew Trident.
£56 billion for HS2 high speed rail.
£7 billion to refurbish Westminster.
£369 million to refurbish Buckingham Place.

All of this without costing up being part of the conflict of bombing Syria (circa £50m), - where the Government say they had no money, but magically found some and also approved all the above.
This should make every UK citizen 'balk' at the idea of spending such a vast amount of taxpayers money on goods when people are hungry and homeless.

And not forgetting with all these BILLIONS OF POUNDS being set up for these projects, as of 2015/16 the UK has a National Debt of £1.64 TRILLION pounds and the interest alone is £68 billion a year - this is WONGA LOANS.
The Deficit (public spending) which the Tories keep harping on about as of 2016/17 - £43 billion net estimated.

Compare this to when Gordon Brown / Labour blamed for the crash - the National Debt was fiscal 2010 at £1.0 Trillion pounds - it has grown more than half in 7 years under the Tories.
The Deficit - before the 2008 crash was around £40 billion net, which the Tories have brought the deficit down to current date but increased the national debt, all this during several years of hardship for the poor and needy.

As we keep increasing the national debt, even though the deficit is down, we keep spending more than our income - the reality is, might as well spend it on Housing / Infrastructure / Education / NHS and help eradicating poverty.

Your move :D

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:32 am
by WF10
alftupper wrote:As a longtime Tory voter I think I can for once agree with the comrades of the Labour Party and say I am truly overjoyed with Jezza's landslide victory. His policy ideas really are quite frightening if it were not for the fact he stands as much chance of becoming PM as Shergar.

I am sure this will condemn Labour to decades of opposition and in-fighting and hopefully give the Conservative Party a chance to shift further to the Right.


Come on then Alf - which policies in the labour manifesto frighten you?

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:38 am
by Bramley Tiger
jeez its obvious national debt has grown so much because of the staggering deficit starting point.to have got it under control would have taken more so called hardship which I very much doubt would have got your approval.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:58 pm
by WF10
So called hardship? Are you for real?

A record number of people, including nurses having to use food banks? 4 million children growing up in poverty? NHS waiting lists ever increasing.

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it isn't happening, Jack.

They are well on the way to TREBLING the national debt even though all they have done is cut cut cut.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:26 pm
by CasRus
Much is being said about the debt continually growing under Conservative, however anything that happens in this present government term has (like every other term) been badly affected by the previous government period - remember the letter stating that "the cupboard is bare" (Brown selling all the gold off at stupidly low price for example) from labour to Conservative treasury when they took office and consider who opened up the stable doors to immigration (Blair's government) !! trying to get the stable door shut under freedom of movement EU laws just now is like King Canute trying to force the tide out ! Now I'm not saying there aren't faults with any government and conservative have a number, but I do think the Conservatives and especially Theresa May is trying her hardest to bring fairness and stability and I think irrespective of anybody's political persuasion, I believe she is the stronger to get the best deal done just now on Brexit which is so important. I am personally getting behind her, see what comes out in the wash and then look at other issues for the next election - Brexit is it for this election and is just common sense to me as all others are saying and wanting to give out money we just do not have - Bigger debt interest repayments. Get and Keep business running to bring in much needed cash and the rest (assisting wages/services) should hopefully follow - I think that's the common sense approach and patience by all is needed as Rome is never built in a day - there is no Magic Wand unless you want to give up Trident and leave us at the mercy of some bad regimes - Corbyn is correct but you just can't disarm until all countries disarm at the same time - shame all countries can't agree to do this as all the trillions of cost could be turned into helping civilisation generally as the world is looking to be on its way to oblivion. Still as long as Cas beat those Rhino's on Sunday who gives a sh.t !

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:34 pm
by WF10
CasRus wrote:consider who opened up the stable doors to immigration (Blair's government) !! trying to get the stable door shut under freedom of movement EU laws just now is like King Canute trying to force the tide out !


Immigration is necessary - a 2013 report from the Office of Budget Responsibility, suggests the impact of an ageing population means we NEED 140,000 immigrants a year if the economy is to grow - Theresa May is well aware of this and their 'ambition' not 'promise' (Fallon last night on Newsnight) is a blatant lie (to get immigration down to the tens of thousands) but the UKIP crew will fall for it. Immigrants are the easy target, it's profiteering by the employees that is the problem.

CasRus wrote:I believe she is the stronger to get the best deal done just now on Brexit which is so important.


Based on what? She has dithered about every single issue faced and hasn't got an original idea in her head. The party is ruled by Crosby and the 1922 Committee, she's just a puppet and tory hq know it.

She's been told to do as little public speaking as possible, hence no TV debates. Does that inspire confidence when it comes to brexit negotiations? Plus, it seems to be forgotten that she was a staunch remainer, yet now Farage is praising her policies? What are her genuine beliefs?!

CasRus wrote:Get and Keep business running to bring in much needed cash and the rest (assisting wages/services) should hopefully follow


The ultimate Thatcher economic policy 'trickledown'.

I assume you mean through lowering corporation tax in order to encourage companies to relocate here or stay here. We already have the lowest Corporation Tax in the G20 - lowering further just gives money to business owners and not the employees. There is zero evidence that lowering corporation tax has a beneficial impact on employees.

CasRus wrote:as long as Cas beat those Rhino's on Sunday who gives a sh.t !


Agreed! :lol:

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:27 pm
by CasRus
If you saw Theresa May's speech today in Edinburgh, what she says makes complete sense to me if people can bring about trusting her to get the deal done and hopefully getting Scotland behind her also - Stronger together. The problem is whether you can trust her enough but someone does need to be trusted. The country is pulling itself apart in all kinds of ways which is vastly illustrated by the Labour Party tearing itself in two for this past year or so. How can anyone vote for Labour just now beats me ! They are completely amateurish with a load of people in positions that are completely out of their depth - Look at Dianne Abbott for example ! What a Joke ! If that's the calibre of the Labour Party just now God help us if they get in just now ! There is a vast difference from May and Corbyn and how you can say she dithers from what I have seen between the two in public speaking is beyond me ! If you are labour it would be best to vote Yvette Cooper in as leader after the election which would be more of a credible person to lead labour and provide that Opposition sadly lacking just now. My point here is that labour are un-votable just now and if you want this country to start off from a Brexit deal, then there is only one alternative just now - it's just plain common in my opinion. Yes it's a bitter pill to swallow for most staunch Labour supporters but keeping your powder dry till the next election and seeing what outcomes evolve is in my opinion the "only game in town" One other point I would like to make is that Labour panned her for not looking after the younger generation and concentrating on the older end and now she trys to rectify this in a fair type manner by removing winter allowance for those pensioners that can afford not to have it to free up some money for other more important issues, they are now saying it is totally disgraceful ! its a total joke ! I am a pensioner getting the allowance and I don't mind losing this allowance at all and had to pay 25 bob a week for my school meals which I came from a six kid family and money was nowhere to be seen in those days. Labour are all about vast spending regardless and not being able to seriously budget for it and are great at rejecting any type of opposition initiatives to balance the books and fund projects (mind you having said that, they all do this !). Paul Nuttall got ganged up on last night and every time he spoke he was seriously interrupted while he didn't interrupt others - just shows how remoaners are resorting to trying to bully their points over while trying to stop opposite views getting across.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:18 pm
by WF10
A speech is different to a debate/negotiations though where you are questioned and pressed on matters rather than just robotic reading of flash cards.

Agree that Abbott is a muppet who made a huge gaffe. But is that any worse than failing to meet numerous pledges re debt/deficit/numbers of immigrants?

The Labour Party is badly fragmented by the plp refusing to acknowledge the democratically elected leader who has been demonised as a 'lefty loony' when his policies really aren't that radically left wing. It's just that 'new labour' and an illegal war wagering leader took us so far to the right they were tory-lite at the time.

Re introducing means tested winter fuel allowance - it'll negatively affect millions of pensioners, the most vulnerable members of our society. But as long as you're alright I guess :roll:

Re spending - the facts are: just one tenure by the tories this century has seen them borrow more money than every labour government there has EVER been - even accounting for what labour did in 46.

And are you expecting sympathy for Paul Nuttall? Seriously?

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:06 pm
by CasRus
Not after sympathy for Paul Nuttall you've missed my point - everybody should have the chance to speak without being constantly interrupted and shouted down - that's downright ignorant and bullying - if you watched Question time on Thursday the Labour girl consistently interrupted the Conservative woman who finally reacted and ended up where none of them could be heard resulting in a slanging match. Before Blair came to power I seem to remember that the books were in pretty good shape and when Brown succeeded Blair and lost, there was nowt left. On your response to immigration and numbers required, that would be fine if there was money spent to accommodate these new people in schools, NHS provision, Housing etc instead of being totally overrun with nowhere to place people and services failing and way overstretched . Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail comes to mind and that's where Labour went totally wrong from 1993 to 2010 and have left this total mess that needs at least 30 years to clear up I can bet !

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:13 pm
by CasRus
Means testing by the way is is to ensure vulnerable people are to be exempt from losing the allowance so I don't get where you say millions of pensioners are to be affected - This is just typical Labour position making it sound worse than what it is -and not acknowledging that well off pensioners should be made to pay their whack and give it back to help other needy causes - comprendez ?

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:56 pm
by Bramley Tiger
WF10 wrote:So called hardship? Are you for real?

A record number of people, including nurses having to use food banks? 4 million children growing up in poverty? NHS waiting lists ever increasing.

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it isn't happening, Jack.

They are well on the way to TREBLING the national debt even though all they have done is cut cut cut.

give over with are u for real.just cos I don't fall for all the lefty claptrap that you obviously swallow.nurses using foodbanks utter [REMOVED] bet they earn more than I do and I don't go to them. I used to share a room with my brothers and that would now be classed as poverty but doesn't mean its true.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:03 am
by WF10
Strong.
Stable.
Pathetic.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn new Labour leader Lol

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:52 am
by TT Tiger
Bramley Tiger wrote:
WF10 wrote:So called hardship? Are you for real?

A record number of people, including nurses having to use food banks? 4 million children growing up in poverty? NHS waiting lists ever increasing.

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it isn't happening, Jack.

They are well on the way to TREBLING the national debt even though all they have done is cut cut cut.

give over with are u for real.just cos I don't fall for all the lefty claptrap that you obviously swallow.nurses using foodbanks utter [REMOVED] bet they earn more than I do and I don't go to them. I used to share a room with my brothers and that would now be classed as poverty but doesn't mean its true.


Starting wage for nurses £7.50 per hour if you are getting less than that your boss is breaking the law.